Jonas Quinn and Daniel Jackson are COMPLETLY DIFFERENT PEOPLE

[skydiver]

and dang but he fills out a t-shirt well

[Legal Beagle]

Originally posted by skydiver
and dang but he fills out a t-shirt well

It's funny when I was in high school and he was doing Parker Lewis Can't Lose I would never have thought of him as ever being 'buff' but he has pulled it off well. :wink2:

[skydiver]

that he has.

[Garron]

The bottom line is that it was a bad move for MS to abandon Stargate. Perhaps this is a pragmatic point of view, but why give Corin Nemec a hard time for replacing a character who decided to leave the show in the first place?

Why have we criticized CN for taking over MS shoes?

[skydiver]

Why have we criticized CN for taking over MS shoes?


I think there are some that would have hated anyone that stepped into the role. Jonas could have been Joan, a black woman from another planet, and still some woudl have found a way to say she was a cheap immitation.

some have honestly watched teh show and formed their own opinions, others literally hate the guy, sight unseen (but they've been told by their friends how horrible he is )

There are always some people that will never accept change of any kind. And if a person is in a mindset that something is horrible, they will spin and twist things to support their view. In the same manner, folks that are bound and determined to see things in a positive light will do the same thing.

I do have to admit that the vehement hatered and vitriole i've seen directed towards the character and at times the actor is very, very scary. Corin is doing a job, plain and simple.

People have always had characters that they've disliked, that's teh nature of fandom. But to the best of my recollection, this extreme level of hatred has only started to show up in the last year or so.

It's almost fanatical, and trying to understand it is like trying to understand the fanaticism that allowed Japanese pilots to Kamikaze themselves, or allowed women to burn themselves alive on their husbands pyres. Yes, those people have a strength of belief and will, but while I can see their beliefs, I can't understand that extreme level of belief.

(NO BEFORE I GET CREAMED, I'M NOT COMPARING PEOPLE TO THIS, JUST USING IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF EXTREME BELIEF SYSTEMS)

It scares me that i can read the character jonas murdered in effigy many times over and the author is congratulated for her efforts, while that sort of hatred directed towards another character, especially Daniel, is immediately shot down and the perpetrator virtually crucified for daring to speak out against Daniel. What ever happened to the golden rule and treating others like you'd like to be treated?

I dont know if i should be concerned about such a depth of feeling exhibited towards a fictional character, or simply be grateful that I live thousands of miles from these folks....because it's spooky and unnerving.

[Hatshepsut]

We seem to be missing the point here. Daniel and Quinn are two different characters. This has nothing - or should have nothing - to do with the actors who play them. One actor left by his own choice for his own very good reasons. The other actor replaced him on the show. Fine. These things happen.

Whether an audience takes to a character - or not - is very much down to the way the new character is introduced. Which is largely down to T.P.T.B. and the writers...

Poor CN was on a hiding to nothing right from the word go as a result of the appalling way he was introduced. The manner in which he was subsequently thrust down everyone's throat at every opportunity and given more and more quasi-magical abilities to try to counter-balance the original c*ck-up only made matters worse.

T.P.T.B. and the writers had unlimited options to introduce Quinn as a likeable character. It wouldn't have been difficult. Yes, a character needs a flaw or two to be interesting, but blackening the reputation of the departing (popular) character, lying, theft and treason are not among them - certainly not combined in the one character. They make him unacceptable to both the Pentagon and the S.G.C.

His inclusion in S.G. -1, therefore, applies a naquadah-enhanced nuclear missile to the suspension of disbelief necessary to keep on watching the show on a regular basis. That being the case, whether the character has any potential to be likeable or not is irrelevant. He simply shouldn't be there.

Had Quinn been, for instance, a member of S.G.-7 - someone with relevant qualifications - and had worked with Daniel, been friends maybe, and as shocked as everyone else by Daniel's death, I feel sure he would have been accepted as the new S.G. -1 team member much more readily.

Actually, it's just occurred to me that, if Quinn had been introduced in that way, then there could quite well have been no furore, no Save Daniel Jackson campaign, no return of Daniel Jackson - and no series seven...

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:

P.S. I don't know what sites you've been visiting, Sky, but while I've come across people wanting to do unspeakable things, not only to Daniel but to Michael Shanks himself!, and shooting down in flames anyone who defended either Daniel or Michael, I've noticed that the SDJ people in general have appealed for courtesy among their supporters.
--

[skydiver]

P.S. I don't know what sites you've been visiting, Sky, but while I've come across people wanting to do unspeakable things, not only to Daniel but to Michael Shanks himself!, and shooting down in flames anyone who defended either Daniel or Michael, I've noticed that the SDJ people in general have appealed for courtesy among their supporters.

~~~~~~~~~~

I dont know where you've been at. obviously somewhere where i'm not. No, i don't care for the man and his actions. And I dont care for the character...but i think the most severe thing i may do is simply turn my back and walk away were i ever to meet him face to face.

What I have experience with is the birth of a new genre 'jonas death fic' where the crux of the story seems to be to kill off jonas in the rudest, most horrible way possible...and bonus points of jack and daneil have sex.

Authors who write this genre are usually cheered on and if anyone criticizes them, those people are put off with a 'its freedom of speech, get over it'.

To each his/her own. I just try to avoid these icky places, which may be why i'm not seeing the Daniel hate.

He's a man who's made a decision, actually two big ones, to leave and to come back. both of those decisions have had an effect upon the show and his fellow actors. Whether or not those are 'good' effects is in teh mind of the viewer.

They are however, his decisions and he has to live with them and any possible consequences.

Is he worth hating? Hades no. I save my hate for good causes.

I think that Jonas and Daniel are two very different characters. The other characters on the show interact with each of them differently, each has his own approach to life and others.

the interpersonal relationships between Jonas and the rest of SG-1 have been different and unique than some relationships between Daniel and the rest of SG-1. Some yearn for the way things used to be, I like how they are now. I personally am seeing a greater level of friendship and kinship in season 6 than I saw before. But that's me. everyone will see what they want to see.

I am able to see the uniqueness in each of them. I don't judge Jonas as harshly as some. And I may judge Daniel harsher than others.

Season 7 will be fundamentally different than season 6. Will it be a change for the better or for the worse? Only time and ratings will tell.

[Hatshepsut]

Originally posted by skydiver
No, i don't care for the man and his actions. And I dont care for the character...but i think the most severe thing i may do is simply turn my back and walk away were i ever to meet him face to face.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to walk away from CN should I ever meet him. Don't know the first thing about the actor, but I'm sure he's very sweet. Heck, some of the SDJ organizers have met him and said so.

What I have experience with is the birth of a new genre 'jonas death fic' where the crux of the story seems to be to kill off jonas in the rudest, most horrible way possible...and bonus points of jack and daneil have sex.

Authors who write this genre are usually cheered on and if anyone criticizes them, those people are put off with a 'its freedom of speech, get over it'.

Well, that sounds like a somewhat irritated response to their being told over and over again, "Daniel's dead. Get over it." I've only come across one site dealing with Quinn death fics. There were only about four fics on it - mind, this was going on a year ago - and they seemed to be done as cartoon-like spoofs. Don't recall seeing any comments, good or bad, about them.

To each his/her own. I just try to avoid these icky places, which may be why i'm not seeing the Daniel hate.

Well me too! I once inadvertantly stumbled on a site - I think it was more shippy than actually pro-Quinn - in which the first post I read said that Michael Shanks - Michael Shanks, mind you, not Daniel - should have his eyes gouged out and his head sawn off!!!!

I was horrified. There are clearly some seriously sick people out there. It's only a bloomin' T.V. programme, after all! I left P.D.Q. and never went there again. :dead:

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

[gategeek]

Originally posted by Hatshepsut



Poor CN was on a hiding to nothing right from the word go as a result of the appalling way he was introduced. The manner in which he was subsequently thrust down everyone's throat at every opportunity and given more and more quasi-magical abilities to try to counter-balance the original c*ck-up only made matters worse.

T.P.T.B. and the writers had unlimited options to introduce Quinn as a likeable character. It wouldn't have been difficult. Yes, a character needs a flaw or two to be interesting, but blackening the reputation of the departing (popular) character, lying, theft and treason are not among them - certainly not combined in the one character. They make him unacceptable to both the Pentagon and the S.G.C.

His inclusion in S.G. -1, therefore, applies a naquadah-enhanced nuclear missile to the suspension of disbelief necessary to keep on watching the show on a regular basis. That being the case, whether the character has any potential to be likeable or not is irrelevant. He simply shouldn't be there.

--

you do realize that this is an extreme viewpoint, don't you?
just because you state it as if it was god's own truth does not make it so. it is merely your opinion.

Originally posted by Hatshepsut

I've noticed that the SDJ people in general have appealed for courtesy among their supporters.
--

you know, it would be alot easier for me to buy that if i didn't know that one of the most appalling "jonas death" fics i've come across was written by a member of the SDJ steering committee and one of the most juvenile pieces of "intense dislike" mail i've ever read was sent to brad wright by yet another SDJ steering committee member.

Originally posted by Hatshepsut

Actually, it's just occurred to me that, if Quinn had been introduced in that way, then there could quite well have been no furore, no Save Daniel Jackson campaign, no return of Daniel Jackson - and no series seven...
--

i'm afraid i can't quite follow your logic here since despite the naysayers season 6 has done quite well thank you. there can be endless speculation about all the factors involved but the fact remains that had season 6 tanked in the ratings there would be no season 7.
shanilka - quite amused by all the "revisionist history" floating around.

[Hatshepsut]

Originally posted by gategeek
you do realize that this is an extreme viewpoint, don't you?

Nope.

just because you state it as if it was god's own truth does not make it so.

Did not. Just stating the obvious.

it is merely your opinion.

Like any post anywhere by anyone.

you know, it would be alot easier for me to buy that if i didn't know that one of the most appalling "jonas death" fics i've come across was written by a member of the SDJ steering committee and one of the most juvenile pieces of "intense dislike" mail i've ever read was sent to brad wright by yet another SDJ steering committee member.

Quinn 'death fics.' involve only the character, not the actor. Why no comment about the death threat to Michael Shanks? That really distressed me. It wouldn't even cross my mind to suggest that that should happen to a character, never mind a real person. :disturbed

But still, it doesn't matter how I feel, does it?

H.
--

[skydiver]

I can agree with gategeek about the jonas death fic. Because the one particularly violent one i've seen was written by a steering committee member. And the feedback (public) that I saw for it was along the line of 'great...jonas dies a horrible death and jack and daniel have sex, what more can a person ask for'

Now both this author and this person are more than entitled to thier opinions.

I do know I was a member of another list where Jonas was most definitely not liked. Individuals would publically cut him down, and the actor too. They'd make insulting comments, basically be very rude. I then found it highly ironic that these same people who were so intolerant of other views were the ones most often crying 'why can't you just respect our views and leave us alone'....when they'd close ranks and slam down any nay sayers to thier 'side'.

Welcome to the double standard and it's practiced by both/all 'sides' of this issue.

I also know that security was hired for gatecon for a reason. MGM felt uncomfortable due to the tone of the mail they'd been receiving. Were their concerns justified? I don't know. I've only read a few publically posted letters. All i know is that MGM felt the need to shell out thousands of dollars in response to a perceived threat.

As to the MS death threats. I'm sorry Hat, I haven't seen them. Doesn't mean they don't exist. iit just means that I don't play in those places. And doesn't mean that those folks don't need a hefty dose of reality either.

If I found someone making threats like that publically, I'd do what i could to shut them down. People like that just make all of us look bad. People like that are why at cons, fans are sometimes kept 10 feet from the actors at all times, or more mainstream fans like us are are looked upon with suspicision and fear.

I know this is a buzz word to some ,but too bad.

IT'S JUST A TV SHOW!!!!

These actors are just men and women doing a job.

My suggestion is that if someone feels that a MS death threat is potentially a real threat, then the hosting company or whomever owns the forum, bulletin board or whatever needs to turn that person into the authroities.

I have friends of mine that have received bona fide death threats from fellow stargate fans. They've left the fandom because of it. If you feel it's real, then turn them in and let the authorities deal with it.

Hat, both you and Shan are polar opposites in your points of view. Debate is fun, debate can be healthy, it can help us understand each other better.

There are times when i think that if more people would talk to each other instead of hiding behind their beliefs, clutching the veil of martyrdome to their chests and playing the ever victim, that we'd probably find out we're a lot more alike than we are different.

[gategeek]

Originally posted by Hatshepsut


Quinn 'death fics.' involve only the character, not the actor. Why no comment about the death threat to Michael Shanks? That really distressed me. It wouldn't even cross my mind to suggest that that should happen to a character, never mind a real person. :disturbed

--

---it appears that you are attempting to accuse me of having a double standard but you will find that my actions do not support this. when an inappropriate comment re MS was made in another thread on this forum i was, in fact, the first to speak out against it.
there has certainly been appalling behavior from all sides of this debate.
unfortunately, the SDJ in general does not have a leg to stand on because their fic, cartoons, essays, letters and actions speak for themselves.
shanilka