Whedon's Vamps and other myths.... - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Tabitha · 24th May 2002, 04:48 AM

I have slowly been working my way through Angel season two, and I keep being reminded how much this show makes me think about other popular vampire tales, in particular Anne Rice's Lestat books.

In particular the season two flashbacks to the Boxer rebellion - Darla's disgust at Angel's dining on rats... Louis in Interview with the Vampire doing the same. In The Vampire Lestat we find out that Lestat's insatiable lust for blood was only satisfied by the 'evildoer' - something that Darla accuses Angel of doing too.
Rice also played on the angst of vampire life - Louis brooded as well as Angel any day of the week

Many of the themes are reminiscent, but I was wondering if any of you out there have any takes on this. Do you think that Whedon et al take many of their cues from some of the most popular vampire tales already out there.
What differences have they made?

Anne Rice moved quite far away from Bram Stoker's Dracula. But Whedon's vamps are like a cross between the two. Wooden stakes, holy water and crucifixes are anathema to Whedonverse vamps, but does garlic have any effect? What about silver bullets? I can't remember.

Highlander II · 24th May 2002, 03:12 PM

Whedon's vamps are affected by the following:

sunlight (Stoker's didn't have this problem)
fire
wooden stakes
holy water
crucifixes
decapitation
garlic (I think - they've put it around windows, and it works in the Buffy board game as a vamp-repellant)

Silver bullets, in the Whedon-verse, only affect werewolves - I think; otherwise we'd see a big bunch of shooting vampires. So, my guess is silver bullets do nothing to vamps.

As far as the comparisons, I've only read "Interview..." so I can't tell you much.

I think what they've tried to do is merge a bunch of 'myths' together to create the vampires.

One of the things Joss mentions in the extras for BTVS S1 (on the DVDs) is that all the vampires burst into dust when they die - no matter how long they've been 'undead,' more as a 'money' saver and a way to keep the plot clean, otherwise they Scoobies would have to run around pickin' up vampire bodies at the end of every show. Vamps turn to dust, all you need is a broom. (That's why the clothes go too - it's easier 'special effects'-wise, saves money.)

I think Joss made it easy on himself and just pulled the facets of vampirism that he liked or thought would work and used those, leaving some other things out that were either too complicated for the screen, or he didn't like. (This is just my speculation, there might have been more thought put into than that.)

Tabitha · 24th May 2002, 06:21 PM

Lots of info there H2, thanks.

Have you ever watched 'Ultraviolet'? It was a great one season series about vamps and their hunters set in London.

The premise was that Vamps were susceptible to the UV in sunlight and could be killed by artificial sources as well. I have always thought that could be an interesting take to incorporate into Buffy and Angel mythos.

Highlander II · 24th May 2002, 08:03 PM

yeppers!

never saw "Ultraviolet" --

tho that sounds interesting ----

hmmm --

Highlander II · 28th May 2002, 01:56 PM

Other vampire differences:

Whedon's vamps don't change form, with the exception of Dracula, who wasn't really a 'Whedon vamp' anyway, but the vampires on BTVS and Angel can't change form (as far as I've been able to tell). [on this, my guess would be b/c the 'morphing' special effect would be a bit much on the budget for the show. I mean, if you look, we rarely see random vamps morph - only the 'biggies' - Spike, Angel, Darla, Dru, Harmony, etc.]

Oh, the thing about being turned and the 1/2 vampire issue:

In the Whedon-verse, there are no 1/2 vamps - once you've been turned, you're turned. It's not like in "The Lost Boys" where you're only a 1/2 vamp until you make your first kill.

I think there was something else I was thinking of, but can't recall just now. (hate it when that happens)

Tabitha · 2nd June 2002, 03:02 AM

Just been thinking about the vamps in Blade.

I think they are probably the most similar to Whedon's vamps.
They have the 'dusting' effect, although with added fire. They can't go out in the day. Drinking vampire blood has a certain (I can't remember what) effect on humans, like the sidekick in B2, and Riley in Buffy. Silver bullets will kill them - but I am not sure about whether this effects the Whedon vampires...
Crosses - I can't remember what this does to Blades vamps either.
Neither of them can change shape, or anything like that either.

There are a few other similarities too - Both myths have a vampires organised in cultist themes. Both have an 'incomplete' vampire hunting his own kind. They are both set in modern times... I am sure there are more correlations but I have to run

Highlander II · 3rd June 2002, 03:36 AM

Whedon's vamps aren't affected by Silver-bullets - as far as I know- not in the 'turn to dust way' --

i haven't seen all of Blade - so, can't do much commentary on that -

ynot · 19th July 2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highlander II

yeppers!

never saw "Ultraviolet" --

tho that sounds interesting ----

hmmm --

The entire series of ULTRAVIOLET is available on youtube.. sadly in the usual 10 minute chunks.. but pretty good quality for all that.

24th May 2002, 04:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Whedon's Vamps and other myths.... I have slowly been working my way through Angel season two, and I keep being reminded how much this show makes me think about other popular vampire tales, in particular Anne Rice's Lestat books. In particular the season two flashbacks to the Boxer rebellion - Darla's disgust at Angel's dining on rats... Louis in Interview with the Vampire doing the same. In The Vampire Lestat we find out that Lestat's insatiable lust for blood was only satisfied by the 'evildoer' - something that Darla accuses Angel of doing too. Rice also played on the angst of vampire life - Louis brooded as well as Angel any day of the week Many of the themes are reminiscent, but I was wondering if any of you out there have any takes on this. Do you think that Whedon et al take many of their cues from some of the most popular vampire tales already out there. What differences have they made? Anne Rice moved quite far away from Bram Stoker's Dracula. But Whedon's vamps are like a cross between the two. Wooden stakes, holy water and crucifixes are anathema to Whedonverse vamps, but does garlic have any effect? What about silver bullets? I can't remember.

24th May 2002, 03:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Whedon's vamps are affected by the following: sunlight (Stoker's didn't have this problem) fire wooden stakes holy water crucifixes decapitation garlic (I think - they've put it around windows, and it works in the Buffy board game as a vamp-repellant) Silver bullets, in the Whedon-verse, only affect werewolves - I think; otherwise we'd see a big bunch of shooting vampires. So, my guess is silver bullets do nothing to vamps. As far as the comparisons, I've only read "Interview..." so I can't tell you much. I think what they've tried to do is merge a bunch of 'myths' together to create the vampires. One of the things Joss mentions in the extras for BTVS S1 (on the DVDs) is that all the vampires burst into dust when they die - no matter how long they've been 'undead,' more as a 'money' saver and a way to keep the plot clean, otherwise they Scoobies would have to run around pickin' up vampire bodies at the end of every show. Vamps turn to dust, all you need is a broom. (That's why the clothes go too - it's easier 'special effects'-wise, saves money.) I think Joss made it easy on himself and just pulled the facets of vampirism that he liked or thought would work and used those, leaving some other things out that were either too complicated for the screen, or he didn't like. (This is just my speculation, there might have been more thought put into than that.)

24th May 2002, 06:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Lots of info there H2, thanks. Have you ever watched 'Ultraviolet'? It was a great one season series about vamps and their hunters set in London. The premise was that Vamps were susceptible to the UV in sunlight and could be killed by artificial sources as well. I have always thought that could be an interesting take to incorporate into Buffy and Angel mythos.

24th May 2002, 08:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	yeppers! never saw "Ultraviolet" -- tho that sounds interesting ---- hmmm --

28th May 2002, 01:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Other vampire differences: Whedon's vamps don't change form, with the exception of Dracula, who wasn't really a 'Whedon vamp' anyway, but the vampires on BTVS and Angel can't change form (as far as I've been able to tell). [on this, my guess would be b/c the 'morphing' special effect would be a bit much on the budget for the show. I mean, if you look, we rarely see random vamps morph - only the 'biggies' - Spike, Angel, Darla, Dru, Harmony, etc.] Oh, the thing about being turned and the 1/2 vampire issue: In the Whedon-verse, there are no 1/2 vamps - once you've been turned, you're turned. It's not like in "The Lost Boys" where you're only a 1/2 vamp until you make your first kill. I think there was something else I was thinking of, but can't recall just now. (hate it when that happens)

2nd June 2002, 03:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Just been thinking about the vamps in Blade. I think they are probably the most similar to Whedon's vamps. They have the 'dusting' effect, although with added fire. They can't go out in the day. Drinking vampire blood has a certain (I can't remember what) effect on humans, like the sidekick in B2, and Riley in Buffy. Silver bullets will kill them - but I am not sure about whether this effects the Whedon vampires... Crosses - I can't remember what this does to Blades vamps either. Neither of them can change shape, or anything like that either. There are a few other similarities too - Both myths have a vampires organised in cultist themes. Both have an 'incomplete' vampire hunting his own kind. They are both set in modern times... I am sure there are more correlations but I have to run

3rd June 2002, 03:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Whedon's vamps aren't affected by Silver-bullets - as far as I know- not in the 'turn to dust way' -- i haven't seen all of Blade - so, can't do much commentary on that -