Is there life in fantasy after Tolkien?

[LadyFel]

I just have to mention good old GRRM here...No elves, no one evil overlord, only one dwarf who won't live underground, incest, very little 'real' magic, and a host of main characters who might die at any moment, as opposed to Aragorn the Almighty and Gandalf the 'look, it was only a little Balrog, it wasn't that hard'

Again, having said that, I take my hat off to Tolkien, LOTR is a wonderful piece of work...I just don't enjoy the whole 'practically immortal hero' thing...Although even there, his characters will die one day, but of old age...As opposed to Drizzt Do'Urden...

[Teresa Edgerton]

One thing I've been doing for the last couple of years is prowling the used bookstores for some of the older fantasy works that I a) never read, or b) never owned a copy of before. (I try not to buy anything used that is currently in print, because I DO want to support the authors I like.) As a result, I've been reunited, as you might say, with some old favorites. Some had already been around for a few years when I read them back in the late sixties or early seventies, some were newly published.

And I have to agree that there were a lot of really excellent and original fantasies written before Tolkien, or at the same time that Tolkien was writing LOTR, or during the period after LOTR was published but while it was still sort of a cult classic known and loved by the few. Books written in the English language I might add.

But I will also say that there has been an even greater quantity of really excellent fantasy written and published since (the published part being thanks to the popularity of the genre after Tolkien) -- you just have to dig through whole truckloads of the more ordinary stuff in order to find it.

I suppose I ought to sit down in front of my bookshelves and make a list of some of these to bolster my argument ...

[LadyFel]

Please do, I'd love to read some more unusual fantasy...

[Teresa Edgerton]

OK, then. To the great authors before Tolkien already mentioned (E. R. Eddison, Mervyn Peake, Lord Dunsany), I would also add T. H. White and Hope Mirlees.

First published in the same year as FOTR was "The Broken Sword," by Poul Anderson. Elves and heroes, but the setting is dark and chaotic, and the elves themselves very wild and elemental.

"The Blue Star" by Fletcher Pratt -- I don't know for sure when this was published -- it wasn't new when I read it back in the early seventies -- but it owes absolutely nothing to Tolkien or any of his sources of inspiration. It's mainly about politics and religion, with a bit of romance thrown in. Although one of the main characters is a witch, the story reads a lot like SF.

And here is my list of excellent and original fantasy written from the late 1960's on (some of this is YA):

Ursula K. LeGuin -- "The Earthsea Trilogy"

Patricia McKillip -- Anything by McKillip, but especially the Riddlemaster books, and her recent "Ombria in Shadow."

C. J. Cherryh -- "Fortress in the Eye of Time," "Fortress of Eagles," "Fortress of Owls," and "Fortress of Dragons." Also, "The Goblin Mirror"

Peter S. Beagle -- "The Last Unicorn," "A Fine and Private Place"

Joy Chant -- "Red Moon, Black Mountain"

Marion Campbell -- "The Dark Twin"

Monica Furlong -- "Wise Child"

Alan Garner -- "The Weirdstone of Brisingamen," and "The Moon of Gomrath. Also, "The Owl Service"

Meredith Ann Pierce -- "The Darkangel Trilogy," strictly speaking this would be science fantasy.

Gillian Bradshaw -- "Hawk of May, "The Kingdom of Summer," and "In Winter's Shadow."

Michael Scott Rohan -- "Anvil of Ice," "The Forge in the Forest," "Hammer of the Sun."

Tanith Lee -- Lee writes everything from YA to almost pornographic adult Dark Fantasy. Her best fantasy, in my opinion, falls halfway in between. Would especially recommend "Faces Under Water," "Saint Fire," and "A Bed of Earth: The Gravedigger's Tale."

Paul Hazel -- "Yearwood," and "Undersea."

Ann Downer -- "The Spellkey Trilogy."

Susan Cooper -- "The Dark is Rising," "Greenwitch," "The Grey King," and "Silver on the Tree."

Jack Vance -- "Lyonesse," "The Green Pearl," and "Madouc."

Tad Williams -- "The Dragonbone Chair," "Stone of Farewell," and "To Green Angel Tower."

Kate Elliott -- Crown of Stars series

Katharine Kerr -- Deverry series

[Shoegaze99]

Originally Posted by Kelpie

Susan Cooper -- "The Dark is Rising," "Greenwitch," "The Grey King," and "Silver on the Tree."

"Over Sea, Under Stone" is the first in this series.

(This series is usually throw in the children's section of most bookstores, but with the rich language, crisp writing, layered characters and great twists on mythology, this is something any adult can enjoy, too. Probably more that kids/young adults)

[Teresa Edgerton]

I left off "Over Sea, Under Stone," on purpose. It's good, but aimed at even younger readers, and it's possible to enjoy the rest of the series without reading it first. I also didn't list a Furlong prequel, and the third book in Paul Hazel's series for similar reasons.

Though I don't doubt that I've left off some authors entirely, out of sheer absence of mind.

edit: And, in fact, yes I did. Tim Powers and James Blaylock for instance.

In any case, the list is long enough to demonstrate why I think there is plenty of life (also excellence and originality) in fantasy after Tolkien.

[Brys]

Well, if you take a look at anything written by Cook, Erikson, Martin or Mieville, it seems clear that original work can and is being produced that is not just another rip-off of Tolkien. Tolkien was influential, but he doesn't shadow out other writers - the reason it seems that way is that many writers have chosen to use a world already created for them by Tolkien and not try anything original for fear it won't sell well.

[GOLLUM]

I agree that Tolkien was influential on modern fantasy but there's a number of examples of fantasy works written in the 20th Century prior to Tolkein's release of The Hobbit and LOTR in addition to a number of modern authors who have very clearly broken the Tolkien mould or are clearly not Tolkien clones.

[neverseen]

there is fantasy in every one of us, but not every one cant expresed im selfe in the way like some can

[Mark Robson]

Welcome, Neverseen. Nice to see a new name on the boards.

Kelpie, you mentioned the trilogy by Michael Scott Rohan. Seeing the titles, I remember reading that series and loving it. Goodness only knows what happened to my copies - I probably leant them to someone and never got them back. That's what normally happens to my best books!

I'm going to have to have a dig around for some of the other titles though. I don't think I've read more than about a quarter of that list.

[unon]

eloquently put

[orionsixwings]

Is there life in fantasy after Tolkien? Yes, I think the professor actually opened an entire doorway to fantasy writers and readers, and because his stories enjoyed so much success, there will always be fantasy writers brave enough to come up with their creative ideas knowing there is a whole group of people who will respond to his work positively.

[Asmer20]

The life after tolken is reality.... I saw on the discovery Channel the other day that there was once a hobbit race. The research is in its early stages, but they found significant information, but the real human hobbits did not have hairy feet. I guess science likes to discover after all Tolken imagined it and it's now been proven that hobbits did exist...and still do to this day. Check the website out:
http://www.johnhawks.net/weblog/foss...very_2006.html

[j. d. worthington]

Of course, there are plenty of threads on here that cover this topic, but I might add a few here anyway:

Before JRRT:

William Morris:

The Glittering Plain
The House of the Wulfings
The Roots of the Mountains
Golden Wings
The Well at the World's End
The Wood Beyond the World
The Water of the Wondrous Isles
The Sundering Flood

Kenneth Morris:

The Book of the Three Dragons
The Fates of the Princes of Dyfed

John Myers Myers:

Silverlock
The Moon's Fire-Eating Daughter
The Harp and the Blade

Leslie Barringer:

Gerfalcon
Joris of the Rock
Shy Leopardess

E. C. Vivian:

Fields of Sleep
City of Wonder

Arthur D. Howden Smith:

Grey Maiden

Arthur O. Friel:

The Pathless Trail
Tiger River

J. Allan Dunn:

The Treasure of Atlantis

H. Rider Haggard:

Wisdom's Daughter
She
She and Allan
Ayesha: The Return of She
Allan Quatermain
King Solomon's Mines
The Wanderer's Necklace
Eric Brighteyes (to name only a few)

James Branch Cabell:

Biography of the Life of Manuel (18 vols.; only part can be strictly considered fantasy, true; but, while each can stand alone, all are interrelated in theme and to some degree characters -- such as Horvendahl or the multitude of aspects of the "Witch-Woman")

A. Merritt:

The Metal Monster
The Moon Pool
Dwellers in the Mirage
The Face in the Abyss
The Fox Woman and Other Stories
The Ship of Ishtar

Contemporary to JRRT:

Fletcher Pratt:

The Well of the Unicorn (Teresa already mentioned The Blue Star)

Fritz Leiber:

He began his Fafhrd and Gray Mouster series in Unknown, in 1939

C. L. Moore:

Her Jirel of Joiry and Northwest Smith tales, blending sf and fantasy

Hannes Bok:

The Sorcerer's Ship

Fletcher Pratt with L. Sprague de Camp:

The Harold Shea stories (originals collected in The Complete Complete Enchanter)
Land of Unreason

Clark Ashton Smith:

Hyperborea Cycle
Zothique Cycle
Averoign Cycle
Poseidonis Cycle

Post-JRRT:

If we're dealing with urban fantasy here (and I don't see why not, as it's very much a valid type), then we'd have to include a huge chunk of the following:

Harlan Ellison (especially the following):

Deathbird Stories
Strange Wine
Shatterday
far too many stories scattered throughout collections to mention more than a handful: "Jeffty Is Five", "One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty", "The Other Eye of Polyphemus", "All the Sounds of Fear",....
(Make no mistake; while he has written sf, Ellison himself has flatly stated that he is not a science-fiction writer, he's a fantasiste; he's quite correct)

Rod Serling
Ray Bradbury (both contemporary and post-Tolkien; again, more fantasy than sf)
Richard Matheson

And, for more "traditional" fantasy:

I'd add Alan Garner's Elidor, even though it's aimed at a younger audience; it's quite a good book

Andre Norton:

Witch World
Web of the Witch World
Three Against the Witch World
The Year of the Unicorn
and a whole slew of others in this series (though some later ones run into problems)

Poul Anderson:

Three Hearts and Three Lions
The Merman's Children

Katherine Kurtz:

the Deryni books (at least the early ones)

Avram Davidson:

The Phoenix and the Mirror
Peregrine: Primus
Peregrine: Secundus
The Island Under the World

I think that JRRT sort of did for the world of the traditional, fairy-tale type fantasy what M. R. James did for the English ghost story; he's been something of a standard to live up to, but also a rather stultifying presence in the field, all too often; something neither of them would have liked.

I could go on, but I think the answer is an obvious and resounding "Yes, there most definitely is life in Fantasy after Tolkien -- if we don't let ourselves get too rigid in our definition of the term."

[GOLLUM]

I agree JD, how I didn't come across this thread before now beats me though...

Rosemary recently gave me a wonderful book entitled Tales Before Tolkien: The Roots Of Modern Fanatsy. I'm sure Teresa has it already.

It is basically a collection of short stories that apparently directly infliuecned Tolkien's wirtings. Not sure if that's the aim of this thread but here's the list anyway:

I'm a bit rushed to type it out so here's a link to the contents page of the book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/read...sin=0345458559

If the link doesn't work try this and search inside book if necessary:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034...lance&n=283155

OR check out this SF site review.

http://www.sfsite.com/02a/tt169.htm