Why was Jennifer Lien fired?

[Dave]

Draco Weyr -- Try to attack the 'post' in future and not the 'poster.'

Did you even bother to read my posts?

While your story may be quite true, you don't actually give any evidence that she was "brutally fired" rather that simply let go at the end of a three year contract.

I think that only Jennifer Lien could really answer that, and if she is professional she never will (unlike Robert Beltran who has been very publically critical - at conventions and interviews - of both 'Star Trek: Voyager' in general, and specifically the way in which his character was or wasn't developed.)

So, until she does speak, it is only a "rumour", and I can understand why Janeways7 thinks unsubstantiated rumours shouldn't be spread.

On the otherhand, your observations about Hollywood in general, and Jeri Taylors firm grip on the early seasons of 'Voyager' are correct, and I could believe there is some truth in what you say.

[Draco Weyr]

actually, if you look at my posts, I never ever ever used the term "Brutally fired". That was another poster. IN FACT I made the comment that Jennifer left Voyager due to her contract not being renewed.

Yeah, I did use a few flowery adjectives and semantics, and will except any flack from what I actually said, but I will not accept any flack from something I didn't say.

But still, I believe my posts where rather balanced all up and looked at both sides. Plus it is not a rumour that Wang was orignally the one to be fired, not Lien, in fact Wang has said at several conventions he was quiet lucky...

A lot of the infomation, while I admit, has not come from Lien herself, has been mentioned by various other actors at various conventions. I do remember Mulgrew and Picardo having articles written about there comments, essentially saying that the exit of Jennifer from the show was sudden and that nobody knew about it, including Jennifer, until they had the scripted for "The Gift". I know the articles are out there, trektoday.com is a good source, though I am to tired to look for them.

Edit for Grammer

[Dave]

I accept that you weren't the first to say she was "brutally fired", but it was in Neo's first post at the start of the thread, and what the thread is about really, was she or wasn't she 'brutally fired'?

And sorry, but you did say "A great example of a 'brutal firing' then coming back into the fold...." in your previous post.

Heated arguments are good, lets have more of them, I don't want to stop debate. I just thought that I would have been upset if I was on the recieving end of that post, but I expect Janeways7 is big enough to stick up for herself.

I also fully accept that there is probably more truth to this rumour than the usual ones, especially if Mulgrew and Picardo have said as much.

I still think that only Jennifer Lien can really give the full story, and I can't see how we will ever know the truth.

[mysh]

Originally posted by Draco Weyr
Here is an online copy of the imfamous People Article where Garrett was named one of the world's 50 most beautiful people.

I know I'm posting this amidst lots of Garrett haters, but I can't access the website, since I have none of what they ask for.

So, I guess, could someone send a screen shot my way or something? I thank you in advance.

[RedNeckMystic2000]

I agree with the posting regarding Garret's listing with People magazine as being part of it, however, there were other issues with Jennifer. According to several staff members, she was not happy with the show. Additionally she was challenged by an anxiety disorder.

[sassy1]

oooooooooooh so THAT was why she left so suddenly!!!!

[castodivo]

In the special features to the Season 3 DVD set, there’s an entire special feature on Jennifer Lien and the story of Kes. It was fascinating. Lien had obviously REALLY picked the minds of the writer and/or created her own back storyline. You should have heard what she had to say about her relationship to Neelix. (She was telling all sorts of reasons and story as to how they met and why they loved each other.) She also had some gorgeous insight into who Kes was before and after she left Ocampa. This did NOT seem like a woman in her early 20’s! She sounded like a woman in her 40’s! So mature! Also, it was remarkable to hear Kate Mulgrew, Tim Russ, Ethan Phillips and Robert Picardo speak soooo fondly of her! I mean, these remarks were REAL, deep, meaningful, thought-out sentiments her fellow actors were giving to her credit! She was definitely loved!

But, to relate to this discussion about her leaving, I noticed two very important things about this feature. A) Jennifer Lien clearly LOVED Kes. She said it was a “joy” to play her. There’s no way she would have given her up (or “quit the show”). I mean, what 23 year old would give up that kind of work!!? B) This is what Kate Mulgrew said about her: “Sad about Jen – and I’ll tell you exactly why: Cause I think she’s a hell of an actress. Sorry to see her go – sorry to see her go the way she went – knowing she was a wonderful actress. That was tough.” You can tell from the interview that Mulgrew is a very tough lady – so that’s high praise!

The whole “Wang being one of the most ‘50 Most Beautiful People’ theory” being what kept him on the show…. naaah. I don’t really buy that. There’s more to this story. What I do buy is that the producers didn’t want to have to pay a 10th cast member – that’s a whole lot of money. And even though Lien is GORGEOUS, it’s a demure, princess beauty, not the vavaVOOM sexiness that was Jeri Ryan – and they wanted that kinda sex appeal to enliven the series. (Ryan was also an AMAZING actress, to bat.) As well, the Seven of Nine character definitely was a fantastic move on the writers’ part. Did Lien leave on her own accord... who knows?

Kes was my very favorite character and, yes, it’s clear that her leaving the show wasn’t as organic as it should have been; there definitely were some holes. I wouldn’t have minded Neelix or Kim leaving. It was really a shame. Kes was fascinating.

[simbott]

i disagree that kim or neelix should have gone instead. kim was a really natural character as a fresh recruit. his buddy relationship with tom was very believable too. i loved kim or garret wang and so do the trekkies for good reason. and neelix was great comedic relief as the chef. the original characters were the most interesting and what made the show good was the mix of different backgrounds, creeds, races and variety as well as the almost family and caring relationships they had.

the captain, tuvok, chakotay, kes, the doctor, kim and neelix really made the show great. the chemistry was even more believable than tng. this was one of the best casts of the star trek series next to ds9. this cast was so good, you actually felt like star trek was real and these characters were real.

i do agree that they should have kept kes. her character was really interesting.

though because much of the public is rather degenerate, they needed or thought they needed to add seven to boost or keep ratings high, that is unfortunate. most of the episodes involving her were the most uninteresting especially if it involved the borg as it's always predictable and done to death. there is no mystery to the borg and they are as predictable as computers. they did not develop her character either, she was far too trite and sarcastic consistently. she was much more interesting when showing her humanity.

i will have to mention that the two characters i found the least interesting or likable were seven bu especially b'lanna. it seems she's not mentioned much but i never really found her interesting at all, just crass and shallow. b'lanna really was an undeveloped character out of all of them. so much so that she came across as grating and annoying consistently to the point you cringe and wait for her to get off the screen for the rest of the crew to resume, especially if she had too much airtime with her sarcasm that was too lame and flat. seven had more potential than her. i'm not saying the person playing b'lanna ruined the show because she didn't since the other characters made up for it but she was just really one-dimensional like a robot, even more than seven. everytime she's onscreen, she only exhibited two emotions and that was arrogance and sarcasm. she didn't even add anything else. she was the most predictable out of all of them. the rest at least seemed to have a soul or you could sense that across the screen, even the holographic doctor had more than the person playing b'lanna. i couldnt' wait for her to shut up with what she needed to report and get out of the screen so the others could talk. she would have been best as an extra in the background.

[TheEndIsNigh]

Joining late here but I have to say that although I've watched most Star Trek and Voyager for many years I can honestly say I hadn't realised she left.

Only this debate has twigged my recollection of her being written out as a "back to the home planet" thing.

In any case, I could understand that the plot line wouldn't have been successful (if it ever was) with an ESP enhanced completely un Star Trek like character. OK we've had characters with 'special powers' as a one off encounter but would the plot have held up every week.

Councilor Troy was a bit hard to take but at least it was a restricted and had she looked like Spock, I don't think she would have lasted long. Neelix was also at the end of his usefulness as a character and should have gone with Kes to fulfil his role as a father. He had no reason to return to Earth and his 'fixer' role had long since lost it's validity or any influence in the plot.

Seven on the other hand brought The Borg and all things alien. I fancy the whole series would have been scrapped had she not been introduced. The series was getting close to it's "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea/ Moon Base Alpha" moment where the same old same old was being wheeled out episode after episode. Move to the next system, have a bit of trouble, sort out the locals and then finish with the "who was that man in the mask" ending. Move on to ...

[AdamCollings]

I was very sorry to see Kes go. She was one of the more fascinating Star Trek characters, and Jennifer Lien was a fantastic actor. I would have loved to see her character continue to develop. I like the relationship with Neelix too. I thought there was a lot of potential exploring that relationship. Particularly as Kes headed toward her inevitable elogium, when she and Neelix would become parents.

If it is true that Yeah of Hell was intendedto be an arc over part of seson 4, then it would have made the show much much better.

Now that I think back on it, I really liked the first three seasons of Voyager. I think season 4 is when it started to go downhill for me. There were still good moments, but It was just lacking "something" that it had early on.

That said - Scorpion was one of the best two-parters in Star Trek history for me.

[captain0terror]

i agree with kim haters, that he was the weakest link of the show and should have been let go, people magazine be dammed. He always "unfit" to play a bridge officer in starfleet to me fsr.. =)

that said, starting with season three somewhere, i began to not really like kes anymore fsr, she just changed for me somehow.. (she was great in seasons 1 and 2)

And to whoever said they should have kept Seska, i 100% agree she was fabulous.
= )

[Solice]

Here we are still --in 2011--discussing the change-out of the Kess character. I'd say that indicates the staying power of the writing of the series, yes? Anyway, my thoughts to add to the considerations are that another poster was probably primarily correct in assuming that the budget for the series would not support a 10th cast member...so when the music stops playing, somebody doesn't have a chair to sit in. haha

I suspect that the Kess character was intended form the outset to be the Deanna Troy of ST:Voyager. In other words, the soft female character for the guys to melt over. If the character had been fulfilling this expectation, the character probably would not have been cut and exchanged for a more overtly sexy rehabilitated Borg Drone (acted with an incredible range by Jeri Ryan). I suspect the Kess character was rather doomed from the outset, based on its' raison d'etre being this soft female function to boost and hold ratings and the fact that the Kess character was scripted to be so child-like. They dressed her like a Catholic school girl, and had to talk in an incredibly soft voice. The character was so soft spoken that, even when her kenetic abilities peaked and a medical instrument she was just thinking she wanted flew into her hand, the character had a very mild response to what for anyone else would have been a shocking event.

If Lien couldn't get the directors and the writers to let her give more dimension to Kess--other than rare extremes like Warlord--that character was always headed for the door. What surprised me was that with all the production talent on that series, it didn't occur to anyone. But perhaps Brannon Braga's brainstorm about the rehabilitated Borg was too much too resist (futile even) and so the Kess character was abandoned. In short, I think the failure of the Kess character was basically a combined failure from the outset shared by the producers, writers and directors.

[Doc W]

I've been watching Star Trek since I caught it in reruns when I was in the 4th grade. I wasn't super crazy about TNG at first, but got to like it in 2nd season. I didn't get to watch Voyager untill I could watch it on line. But letting go of "Kess" did not surprise me after watching that lousy ending to Entreprise and they killed off Tripp for no good reason!!!!! Also I never liked Deanna Troy, esp. after the connvention I saw her at in San Antonio, TX where she yelled at attenders. Why would I want to see her on Enterprise? Long live Kess and 7 of 9! And Tripp!

[Stars1100]

Jennifer was never fired from the show, her contract was ending at the end of that season and she decided not to renew as she planned to leave acting to pursue a Medical career. Although she quit acting she did continue for a couple of years while attending medical school doing voice over work and made a 1 time return to Voyager in season 7. but as of 2003 she left the entertainment business all together. She is now a Doctor and is happy with her new career. In 2011 she got together with the cast of Voyager for a QandA session where she herself explains why she left the show. MY GOD! she got so so so Fat.

[Kaldaur]

I always love the weight comments from internet posters about actors and actresses' weight problems. Especially when they haven't been acting for a decade. And when they've had kids. And work a full-time job.

I think we'll never know the real reasons she was let go, because only Jeri Taylor or Jennifer could give the 100% truth. Even now, it will have been colored by a decade of feelings and recollections, so this will be one mystery always left to the realm of speculation.