Some thoughts on Doyle's departure... - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Tabitha · 14th April 2002, 11:12 AM

I have just received Angel Season One on DVD and have been making some observations while watching the first four episodes.

My main thought is, "Why on earth did they get rid of this wonderful character? He is a bit of a stereotype right now, but he obviously has such room to grow. It is not often you hear someone with such an authentically thick Dublin accent on an american (particularly scifi/fantasy) tv show.. I love it!"

I then did a bit of hunting around the net, trying to find out why Glenn Quinn actually left the show. I had the impression that the old "creative differences" bit might be trotted out, I was glad that this suspicion was not confirmed, but saddened to realise that he was probably never a real contender for a permanent post on the show.

I found the following at This Site

Glenn's publicist issued the following statement:

"In a recently delivered final draft of the script of episode 9, Glenn Quinn's character, Doyle, dies. The plot line has apparently been planned since early in the development of the storylines for the season and has been kept under wraps. We don't know what happens after episode 9, but Glenn has been aware of this development since the beginning of the season and is looking at scripts for his next film."

I know that several of you have mentioned in this forum the fact that Joss wanted to do this with Buffy, but did not have the clout (or whatever), but I am amazed that this actually happened. Whedon let the bloke stay just long enough to get familiar and gain a following, and then axed him. Somewhat cruel I think. Does anyone think that any amount of fan pressure would have brought Doyle back? I doubt it.

Whedon might have intended the whole thing to make the new show "Angel" appear as if it could break barriers and shock its audience, but in honesty, my first impressions of the cast shake up were that the ratings were a disaster and they dumped the "miscast" new guy and replaced him with a tried and true character that the fans already knew.
Of course I know now that this apparently wasn't the intention, but it still made me sad. Doyle had a lot more life in him yet, and I for one would watch the show even more religiously knowing that that cheeky Irish chappie was still in it

Tabitha · 20th April 2002, 11:54 PM

Just following on from my earlier post, I have come across a few sites on the net that have crytically mentioned that the Doyle character was actually brought in as a replacement for Whister (the demon that "introduced" Angel to Buffy way back in "Becoming"). There isn't much detail, and I was wondering if any of you other Angel fans out there have heard any more details about this. I wonder if this is actually case, but the actor that played Whistler was unable to commit for whatever reason to the show.

I was just watching the featurette on the Angel Season One DVD, and one of the producer types mentioned that "after episode nine, we had to opportunity to bring in another character", i.e. after Doyle's death. It set me to thinking about whether Joss Whedon had planned this all along, that he had decided that Wesley would carry over into Angel after the end of Season Three Buffy, rather than it just being a coincidence. What do you think?

I for one think that Doyle and Wesley would have made an interesting mismatched duo :lol:

Tabitha · 26th April 2002, 03:09 AM

I can't remember where I read or saw this, but I have this recollection of David Boreanaz mentioning that one of the reason's Doyle's character didn't fit in was because he was too similar to Angel, dark and brooding etc. I couldn't disagree with this more! Doyle was really anything but dark in my opinion...

Lots of conflicting rumours.

I have also come across an interview with Joss Whedon saying that he much prefers writing Wes than Doyle... he didn't really go into why, though.

Highlander II · 26th April 2002, 03:37 AM

1st - a correction -- if i'm not mistaken (and i might be) Glenn Quinn is Irish - so the accent is real --

and - if it was planned all along - it's not so bad that he died - i mean, it's still sad b/c he was a great character - but sometimes you just gotta let 'em go -

and yeah - on Buffy - Spike was supposed to die in the episode where he was crushed by an organ (i think that's the one) but they changed it b/c he was such a well-liked character -

could they have done something diff w/ Doyle? sure - but then it wouldn't have had the same effect --- Doyle's death was very meaningful on the show - and i think Joss put a great deal of thought into the way the character would leave - he didn't just kill him off just to kill him ---

i was rather impressed --

Tabitha · 26th April 2002, 03:42 AM

I was referring to an "american tv show" - I know Quinn is Irish (no American could do an accent that good! Well, not on the telly anyway...).

It was definitely a meaniful death - and I was glad to see that they didn't just forget about him overnight - there were mentions of him name through the rest of the season.

pamie · 27th April 2002, 12:41 AM

Yeah I have heard that he was ment to be killed off all along and Joss wanted to do this to show us lot that he could really do anything he wanted....
I don't beleive that Joss or anyone could imagine how poular Dolyes character could have become in such a short space of time.
I really liked the way that he was killed off and that episode is great and I cry everytime...plus it was a great way for Cordy to get those visions.
I think it would be great to still have Doyle in it..but its not to be!!

Highlander II · 27th April 2002, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tabitha
I was referring to an "american tv show" - I know Quinn is Irish (no American could do an accent that good! Well, not on the telly anyway...).

oops - brain dead me read it wrong --

anyway -- back to Doyle --

yeah - don't think that Joss had any idea how popular he would be in just 9 episodes --
happens that way in a lot of shows -- but - that's just the way things are -----

Tabitha · 28th April 2002, 03:04 AM

Would you like to see him back?
I don't really mean permanently, just for a flashback kind of episode, where something that he was involved in in the poast comes back to haunt the Angel crew. My meaning is - new shots of Glenn Quinn, but Doyle remains dead.

Highlander II · 28th April 2002, 07:21 AM

i wouldn't mind --

i just prefer that if characters are going to die on a show, that they stay dead -

so many times in The Pretender, characters would die, or we would think they did, but, somehow, they'd always come back - you could never tell if someone was gonna stay dead -- got really annoying after a while - it was like the writers couldn't come up w/ a new character, so they'd resurrect an old one --

so, if Doyle comes back in a 'flashback' sequence - sure, that's cool - but not a 'rise from the dead' - b/c that would totally nullify his noble death --

Tabitha · 28th April 2002, 10:12 AM

Oh no - I am not suggesting the resurrection line - that bothers me a lot when shows do that - like Apophis in SG1. But a flashback style ep would be really nice - and kind of an original take on a comeback, I think.

markpud · 21st May 2002, 11:14 PM

nice idea

Tabitha · 18th December 2002, 11:03 AM

As nice an idea as it might have been, it is not now going to happen.

Glenn Quinn died recently, a great loss :crying:

Yoda Rocks · 12th March 2003, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tabitha
As nice an idea as it might have been, it is not now going to happen.

Glenn Quinn died recently, a great loss :crying:

Sorry to be so morbid, but how did the great man Quinn die?

I thought he was a very good actor and his character was a very important part of what has made the show great.

He is sadly missed

markpud · 14th March 2003, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoda Rocks

Sorry to be so morbid, but how did the great man Quinn die?

I thought he was a very good actor and his character was a very important part of what has made the show great.

He is sadly missed

There's more information here: http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthr...threadid=16200

14th April 2002, 11:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Some thoughts on Doyle's departure... I have just received Angel Season One on DVD and have been making some observations while watching the first four episodes. My main thought is, "Why on earth did they get rid of this wonderful character? He is a bit of a stereotype right now, but he obviously has such room to grow. It is not often you hear someone with such an authentically thick Dublin accent on an american (particularly scifi/fantasy) tv show.. I love it!" I then did a bit of hunting around the net, trying to find out why Glenn Quinn actually left the show. I had the impression that the old "creative differences" bit might be trotted out, I was glad that this suspicion was not confirmed, but saddened to realise that he was probably never a real contender for a permanent post on the show. I found the following at This Site Glenn's publicist issued the following statement: "In a recently delivered final draft of the script of episode 9, Glenn Quinn's character, Doyle, dies. The plot line has apparently been planned since early in the development of the storylines for the season and has been kept under wraps. We don't know what happens after episode 9, but Glenn has been aware of this development since the beginning of the season and is looking at scripts for his next film." I know that several of you have mentioned in this forum the fact that Joss wanted to do this with Buffy, but did not have the clout (or whatever), but I am amazed that this actually happened. Whedon let the bloke stay just long enough to get familiar and gain a following, and then axed him. Somewhat cruel I think. Does anyone think that any amount of fan pressure would have brought Doyle back? I doubt it. Whedon might have intended the whole thing to make the new show "Angel" appear as if it could break barriers and shock its audience, but in honesty, my first impressions of the cast shake up were that the ratings were a disaster and they dumped the "miscast" new guy and replaced him with a tried and true character that the fans already knew. Of course I know now that this apparently wasn't the intention, but it still made me sad. Doyle had a lot more life in him yet, and I for one would watch the show even more religiously knowing that that cheeky Irish chappie was still in it

20th April 2002, 11:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Just following on from my earlier post, I have come across a few sites on the net that have crytically mentioned that the Doyle character was actually brought in as a replacement for Whister (the demon that "introduced" Angel to Buffy way back in "Becoming"). There isn't much detail, and I was wondering if any of you other Angel fans out there have heard any more details about this. I wonder if this is actually case, but the actor that played Whistler was unable to commit for whatever reason to the show. I was just watching the featurette on the Angel Season One DVD, and one of the producer types mentioned that "after episode nine, we had to opportunity to bring in another character", i.e. after Doyle's death. It set me to thinking about whether Joss Whedon had planned this all along, that he had decided that Wesley would carry over into Angel after the end of Season Three Buffy, rather than it just being a coincidence. What do you think? I for one think that Doyle and Wesley would have made an interesting mismatched duo :lol:

26th April 2002, 03:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	I can't remember where I read or saw this, but I have this recollection of David Boreanaz mentioning that one of the reason's Doyle's character didn't fit in was because he was too similar to Angel, dark and brooding etc. I couldn't disagree with this more! Doyle was really anything but dark in my opinion... Lots of conflicting rumours. I have also come across an interview with Joss Whedon saying that he much prefers writing Wes than Doyle... he didn't really go into why, though.

26th April 2002, 03:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	1st - a correction -- if i'm not mistaken (and i might be) Glenn Quinn is Irish - so the accent is real -- and - if it was planned all along - it's not so bad that he died - i mean, it's still sad b/c he was a great character - but sometimes you just gotta let 'em go - and yeah - on Buffy - Spike was supposed to die in the episode where he was crushed by an organ (i think that's the one) but they changed it b/c he was such a well-liked character - could they have done something diff w/ Doyle? sure - but then it wouldn't have had the same effect --- Doyle's death was very meaningful on the show - and i think Joss put a great deal of thought into the way the character would leave - he didn't just kill him off just to kill him --- i was rather impressed --

26th April 2002, 03:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	I was referring to an "american tv show" - I know Quinn is Irish (no American could do an accent that good! Well, not on the telly anyway...). It was definitely a meaniful death - and I was glad to see that they didn't just forget about him overnight - there were mentions of him name through the rest of the season.

27th April 2002, 12:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
pamie Space Monkey! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: South coast of the UK Posts: 3,091	Yeah I have heard that he was ment to be killed off all along and Joss wanted to do this to show us lot that he could really do anything he wanted.... I don't beleive that Joss or anyone could imagine how poular Dolyes character could have become in such a short space of time. I really liked the way that he was killed off and that episode is great and I cry everytime...plus it was a great way for Cordy to get those visions. I think it would be great to still have Doyle in it..but its not to be!!

28th April 2002, 03:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Would you like to see him back? I don't really mean permanently, just for a flashback kind of episode, where something that he was involved in in the poast comes back to haunt the Angel crew. My meaning is - new shots of Glenn Quinn, but Doyle remains dead.

28th April 2002, 07:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	i wouldn't mind -- i just prefer that if characters are going to die on a show, that they stay dead - so many times in The Pretender, characters would die, or we would think they did, but, somehow, they'd always come back - you could never tell if someone was gonna stay dead -- got really annoying after a while - it was like the writers couldn't come up w/ a new character, so they'd resurrect an old one -- so, if Doyle comes back in a 'flashback' sequence - sure, that's cool - but not a 'rise from the dead' - b/c that would totally nullify his noble death --

28th April 2002, 10:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Oh no - I am not suggesting the resurrection line - that bothers me a lot when shows do that - like Apophis in SG1. But a flashback style ep would be really nice - and kind of an original take on a comeback, I think.

21st May 2002, 11:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	nice idea

18th December 2002, 11:03 AM	#12 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	As nice an idea as it might have been, it is not now going to happen. Glenn Quinn died recently, a great loss :crying: