"Dr. Who was rubbish" says Michael Grade. - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Dave · 13th April 2002, 02:09 PM

The self confessed Sci-fi hater, and ex-BBC1 controller, Michael Grade says that 'Dr. Who', the show he axed in 1989, "had no redeeming features."

He appears on the BBC2 show 'Room 101' (named for the room in the George Orwell novel '1984') in which guests give details of their own pet hates.

"It was a waste of license payers' money."

"I thought it was rubbish, I thought it was pathetic, I'd seen 'Star Wars', 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' and 'ET', and then I had to watch these cardboard things clonking across the floor trying to scare kids!"

"There was a huge press campaign to save it... thousands of letters from three fans writing all night!"

"I got an award, a gold statuette of the rear of an animal, the 'Horse's Ass Award' from the Dr. Who Appreciation Society of America."

ray gower · 13th April 2002, 02:23 PM

Did he get away with it?

Ultimately he had only himself to blame. As controller of the BBC it was his name at the bottom of the cheques.

No money equalled cheap, wobbly sets and poor stories.

Qwxy · 25th April 2002, 10:43 PM

well most old sci fi programmes look cardboard now anyway but some of the 7th doctor episodes were quite good all you need to do is let go of your sense of 'thats fake and so is that' way of thinking and the shows become really good

p.s. soon my mate James will be posting under my name on here but all his will be signed James just letting you know but it will be done here (my house) so i will still be around

Dave · 25th April 2002, 11:02 PM

Your mate James could join himself, and still post from your computer, you each just need to 'log out' on the bottom of the main page when you've finished, and the other wants to log in.

Yes, good science fiction is about original ideas and storytelling. That's why 'Dr. Who' and 'Blake's Seven' were good even though the sets wobbled. Mr Grade says he dislikes any science fiction. He obviously just doesn't get it, and he has no intention of even trying to understand it.

Dr Who plots in the sixties were very, very original, that's why it was so good. Aliens such as Daleks and Cybermen were remarkable. (Aren't the 'Borg' and other cyborgs really just 'Cybermen'?)

I know this isn't everyone' view ( many think it was the actors fault, or the budgetary constraints that lead to it's demise) but I think that the stories became progressively less original and borrowed too many things from elsewhere.

Luckily someone at the BBC still had the insight to commission 'Red Dwarf'.

Qwxy · 25th April 2002, 11:20 PM

i dont think he would actually want to sign up also i want another alien head and i dont remember my password or anything

obcooke · 27th July 2002, 07:16 AM

[Dave: The self confessed Sci-fi hater, and ex-BBC1 controller, Michael Grade says that 'Dr. Who', the show he axed in 1989, "had no redeeming features.]

Well, you know the old expression that every once in a while, even a blind pig finds a truffle?

I imagine that that blind pig misses a lot of diamonds while sniffing out that lone truffle.

Oh, did I just compare Mr. Grade to a pig? Now I will have to brace myself for protest letters from the pigs.

Boranon · 17th September 2002, 08:50 AM

Doctor Who was very witty! It was the interaction of the players and the stories that kept me watching not the special effects! :rolly2:

obcooke · 19th September 2002, 01:24 PM

You got that right Boranon.

The Doctor was such a strange lead character, that I guess you either went along with how different he was or you hated him. But the interaction between him and the companions was never boring.

If you don't like Sci-Fi than your ability to appreciate the really strange probably is pretty low.

That's my theory.

gr8scott · 24th February 2003, 11:11 PM

It seems clear that Michael Grade's negative view of the show was driven mainly by the b-grade special effects.

I've noticed that there are three broad categories by which I grade shows... Plot, Acting, and Effects/Cinematrography. I've also noticed that most of my SciFi friends lean heavily toward the Plot side of things and tend to "ignore" the other categories (for the most part) as long as the plot is strong.

I bet the people, myself included, who like DW tend to like it for it's plot. It was excellent - very original. As far as special effects... admittedly - they sucked! But I just didn't care. Acting, well I don't think that was very high either except for Tom Baker who was outstanding IMO.

ray gower · 24th February 2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gr8scott
I've noticed that there are three broad categories by which I grade shows... Plot, Acting, and Effects/Cinematrography. I've also noticed that most of my SciFi friends lean heavily toward the Plot side of things and tend to "ignore" the other categories (for the most part) as long as the plot is strong.

Problem here of course is that most US Science Fiction is done for the effects, story is secondary and acting doesn't even loom in the vocabulory.

Dave · 25th February 2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gr8scott
I've also noticed that most of my SciFi friends lean heavily toward the Plot side of things and tend to "ignore" the other categories (for the most part) as long as the plot is strong.

I bet the people, myself included, who like DW tend to like it for it's plot. It was excellent - very original. As far as special effects... admittedly - they sucked!

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. To enjoy science fiction you need a certain amount of imagination, otherwise you just don't get it anyway. If you have that much imagination, then all the lines don't need to be drawn in for you, as long as the dots are there.

Dave · 2nd April 2004, 08:17 AM

The self-confessed sci-fi & Dr Who hater has just been appointed Head of the BBC Board of Governers. The appointment of the Former Channel 4 boss and ex-BBC1 controller comes after previous chairman Gavyn Davies quit over the Hutton Report on the BBC's handling of Iraqi War reporting.

So how many seasons do you think the "new" 'Dr Who' series will last?

ray gower · 2nd April 2004, 09:03 AM

If my understanding of the role of the governors is right (they make policy, wheedle money etc.) then Low Grade is now in a position where he might actually do some good!

The beauty of policy is that it is so easy to work around- Through-deck cruisers instead of aircraft carriers, educational childrens drama in place of science fiction etc. It is all the same

Dave · 19th March 2005, 09:22 PM

I just watched the BBC2 'Doctor Who Evening' and during the 'Things you should Know about Doctor Who' item, Michael Grade himself came in for some serious digs...

Firstly, John Culshaw said that he only lasted as BBC1 Controller about as long as Doctor Who did after he had cancelled it.

Then he said that it was Michael Grade who decided what went into the Millennium Dome - clearly attacking his powers of judgement.

Michael Grade himself was quoted as saying that he didn't mind if Doctor Who did return, as long as he didn't have to watch it.

Just to bring things up to date, the Government announced last week that the BBC Governors are being abolished anyhow.

ray gower · 19th March 2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Michael Grade himself was quoted as saying that he didn't mind if Doctor Who did return, as long as he didn't have to watch it.

Well that seems fair enough. I chose not to bother wasting my time going to the Dome!

Just as long as he is forced to watch all the trailers, that at least will form some recompense for the exhortations to see the non-working wonders of the Dome.

OT Which episode of TNG was it that listed the various Doctors?

13th April 2002, 02:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,421	"Dr. Who was rubbish" says Michael Grade. The self confessed Sci-fi hater, and ex-BBC1 controller, Michael Grade says that 'Dr. Who', the show he axed in 1989, "had no redeeming features." He appears on the BBC2 show 'Room 101' (named for the room in the George Orwell novel '1984') in which guests give details of their own pet hates. "It was a waste of license payers' money." "I thought it was rubbish, I thought it was pathetic, I'd seen 'Star Wars', 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' and 'ET', and then I had to watch these cardboard things clonking across the floor trying to scare kids!" "There was a huge press campaign to save it... thousands of letters from three fans writing all night!" "I got an award, a gold statuette of the rear of an animal, the 'Horse's Ass Award' from the Dr. Who Appreciation Society of America."

27th July 2002, 07:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	Re: "Dr. Who was rubbish" says Michael Grade. [Dave: The self confessed Sci-fi hater, and ex-BBC1 controller, Michael Grade says that 'Dr. Who', the show he axed in 1989, "had no redeeming features.] Well, you know the old expression that every once in a while, even a blind pig finds a truffle? I imagine that that blind pig misses a lot of diamonds while sniffing out that lone truffle. Oh, did I just compare Mr. Grade to a pig? Now I will have to brace myself for protest letters from the pigs.

17th September 2002, 08:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
Boranon Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USA Posts: 26	Jelly Babies anyone? Doctor Who was very witty! It was the interaction of the players and the stories that kept me watching not the special effects! :rolly2:

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13th April 2002, 02:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	Did he get away with it? Ultimately he had only himself to blame. As controller of the BBC it was his name at the bottom of the cheques. No money equalled cheap, wobbly sets and poor stories.

25th April 2002, 10:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
Qwxy The Star Trek Oracle Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U.K in Basingstoke Posts: 280	well most old sci fi programmes look cardboard now anyway but some of the 7th doctor episodes were quite good all you need to do is let go of your sense of 'thats fake and so is that' way of thinking and the shows become really good p.s. soon my mate James will be posting under my name on here but all his will be signed James just letting you know but it will be done here (my house) so i will still be around

25th April 2002, 11:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,421	Your mate James could join himself, and still post from your computer, you each just need to 'log out' on the bottom of the main page when you've finished, and the other wants to log in. Yes, good science fiction is about original ideas and storytelling. That's why 'Dr. Who' and 'Blake's Seven' were good even though the sets wobbled. Mr Grade says he dislikes any science fiction. He obviously just doesn't get it, and he has no intention of even trying to understand it. Dr Who plots in the sixties were very, very original, that's why it was so good. Aliens such as Daleks and Cybermen were remarkable. (Aren't the 'Borg' and other cyborgs really just 'Cybermen'?) I know this isn't everyone' view ( many think it was the actors fault, or the budgetary constraints that lead to it's demise) but I think that the stories became progressively less original and borrowed too many things from elsewhere. Luckily someone at the BBC still had the insight to commission 'Red Dwarf'.

25th April 2002, 11:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
Qwxy The Star Trek Oracle Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U.K in Basingstoke Posts: 280	i dont think he would actually want to sign up also i want another alien head and i dont remember my password or anything

19th September 2002, 01:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	You got that right Boranon. The Doctor was such a strange lead character, that I guess you either went along with how different he was or you hated him. But the interaction between him and the companions was never boring. If you don't like Sci-Fi than your ability to appreciate the really strange probably is pretty low. That's my theory.

24th February 2003, 11:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
gr8scott Tal Shiar Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 264	It seems clear that Michael Grade's negative view of the show was driven mainly by the b-grade special effects. I've noticed that there are three broad categories by which I grade shows... Plot, Acting, and Effects/Cinematrography. I've also noticed that most of my SciFi friends lean heavily toward the Plot side of things and tend to "ignore" the other categories (for the most part) as long as the plot is strong. I bet the people, myself included, who like DW tend to like it for it's plot. It was excellent - very original. As far as special effects... admittedly - they sucked! But I just didn't care. Acting, well I don't think that was very high either except for Tom Baker who was outstanding IMO.

2nd April 2004, 08:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,421	The self-confessed sci-fi & Dr Who hater has just been appointed Head of the BBC Board of Governers. The appointment of the Former Channel 4 boss and ex-BBC1 controller comes after previous chairman Gavyn Davies quit over the Hutton Report on the BBC's handling of Iraqi War reporting. So how many seasons do you think the "new" 'Dr Who' series will last?

2nd April 2004, 09:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	If my understanding of the role of the governors is right (they make policy, wheedle money etc.) then Low Grade is now in a position where he might actually do some good! The beauty of policy is that it is so easy to work around- Through-deck cruisers instead of aircraft carriers, educational childrens drama in place of science fiction etc. It is all the same

19th March 2005, 09:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,421	I just watched the BBC2 'Doctor Who Evening' and during the 'Things you should Know about Doctor Who' item, Michael Grade himself came in for some serious digs... Firstly, John Culshaw said that he only lasted as BBC1 Controller about as long as Doctor Who did after he had cancelled it. Then he said that it was Michael Grade who decided what went into the Millennium Dome - clearly attacking his powers of judgement. Michael Grade himself was quoted as saying that he didn't mind if Doctor Who did return, as long as he didn't have to watch it. Just to bring things up to date, the Government announced last week that the BBC Governors are being abolished anyhow.