Is SF becoming ashamed of itself? - Page 4 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

EmilyH · 27th August 2002, 10:20 PM

Actually, I meant the old radio shows, which I missed because they were before my time.

Here's a cool web site with scripts that I found in a Yahoo search:

http://www.genericradio.com/library.htm

ray gower · 27th August 2002, 10:30 PM

But not all before mine!

I remember quite a few. If not from the original, then the repeats, or the BBC's own adaptations.

Thanks for the link, it brings back some very old and fond memories

Bayleaf48 · 28th August 2002, 11:21 AM

That's the problem with some books now is that the author has decided 2 make it vey long, so that the plot is 'dragged out'

EmilyH · 3rd September 2002, 12:36 AM

I don't mind books that are long, as long as they advance the plot and are not just pointless rambling.

The problem is that a lot of people are daunted by the length of books, especially since many sci-fi & fantasy books come in series, so you have to start with the first one for it to make sense. Time is a scarcity for those of us who are working 40 hours/week and may have other hobbies as well, or like to visit friends & family members too. Maybe if short stories became popular again & were sold in chapbooks, or shorter-length books with not more than 3-4 stories in them, more people would consider reading sci-fi/fantasy.

Bayleaf48 · 3rd September 2002, 08:59 AM

Good point there Emily!

:blush:

EmilyH · 3rd September 2002, 12:59 PM

Thanks!

I'm hoping the e-book format will catch on eventually because it allows short-story & poetry authors to easily publish & distribute a book online.

Perhaps more people will be readers of sci-fi someday.

ZachWZ · 4th September 2002, 05:15 AM

I know what people are talking when it comes to book lenghth. Jules Verne was long winded. Yet i don't care Captain nemo's ship in 20,000 leages under the sea. the nautius Yet all of the operation are correct and still used in today's subs. the descriptions help enhance the readers image of Nemo as a science super geinus. The ocean sections lend proff to the reader that the ship is realloy in extordinary dephs. Note:The translation quaility of Verne's works in other languages varies.

I read a modern book called the Talk show Murders here's what it had. The dective stuffing a turkey for 10 pages. two cops under her whose life stories we get to know that do nothing. A recap of about 10 previous books in the series. A sex scene put in to lenthen the book since it didn't help the plot in any way. And a bunch of naration about literly nothing. I do have to mention there's nothing special about the main plot line either.

That was my rant.

ZachWZ

Bayleaf48 · 4th September 2002, 09:14 AM

I do hope so, as it is a shame that many don't bother

:blush:

ray gower · 4th September 2002, 09:38 AM

I always thought of Verne as quite a compact writer. Even 20,000 Leagues can be read inside a couple of evenings.

Yes. He sometimes gets a little emotive in his descriptions and uses long sentences, but they never interfere with the book.

Bayleaf48 · 4th September 2002, 09:40 AM

Then that is good as it helps right?

:blush:

ray gower · 4th September 2002, 10:04 AM

Right!

Bayleaf48 · 4th September 2002, 10:06 AM

Then surely books like that are going 2 be interesting 2 read, but yet some people will complain about them being 2 long

:blush:

ray gower · 4th September 2002, 10:29 AM

Zach didn't say the book is too long. If you've never read '20,000 Leagues Under the Sea', or any other Verne novels, it is a little difficult to explain. (Highly recommend the Puffin Classics version of all of his)

The thing is. If the description fits where it goes and does something for the overall atmosphere, or progress of the story, then that is good. For instance Lord of the Rings is full of description, yet it all falls into place and adds atmosphere. On the other hand, if he had launched into a ten page description of the shades of dark in Moria. Then I would suggest this would be over the top.

Bayleaf48 · 4th September 2002, 11:30 AM

True, so a limit is there, it's just up 2 the authors whether they heed it or not

:blush:

ray gower · 3rd October 2002, 01:42 PM

There are guidelines and a lot depends upon what people are trying to write.

On the whole, Fantasy books are slower and longer than average. They have to be, because the descriptions need to be more lurid to create the atmosphere. In this case, perhaps, half a page of words is necessary to explain what the water is doing when our hero goes fishing.

If the story is Action based, then you expect the whole story to progress quickly and you read accordingly. In the whole fishing scenario from above, you would expect the whole scenario to be over and done with within a couple of pages, including the man-eating shark (Unless that is the basis of the story).
Less descriptive is required, it is what is happening that matters- So the sea is now simply heavy and grey, not, 'Flickering white foam like galloping horses cavorted of the wildly tossing silver grey swells as Neptune.. etc.'

An Adventure story would probably fit somewhere between the two.

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27th August 2002, 10:20 PM	#46 (permalink)
EmilyH MN Sci-fi Fan Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Eagan, MN, USA Posts: 529	Actually, I meant the old radio shows, which I missed because they were before my time. Here's a cool web site with scripts that I found in a Yahoo search: http://www.genericradio.com/library.htm

27th August 2002, 10:30 PM	#47 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,586	But not all before mine! I remember quite a few. If not from the original, then the repeats, or the BBC's own adaptations. Thanks for the link, it brings back some very old and fond memories

28th August 2002, 11:21 AM	#48 (permalink)
Bayleaf48 Hero Of Time Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Barnstaple, North Devon Posts: 2,980	That's the problem with some books now is that the author has decided 2 make it vey long, so that the plot is 'dragged out'

3rd September 2002, 12:36 AM	#49 (permalink)
EmilyH MN Sci-fi Fan Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Eagan, MN, USA Posts: 529	I don't mind books that are long, as long as they advance the plot and are not just pointless rambling. The problem is that a lot of people are daunted by the length of books, especially since many sci-fi & fantasy books come in series, so you have to start with the first one for it to make sense. Time is a scarcity for those of us who are working 40 hours/week and may have other hobbies as well, or like to visit friends & family members too. Maybe if short stories became popular again & were sold in chapbooks, or shorter-length books with not more than 3-4 stories in them, more people would consider reading sci-fi/fantasy.

3rd September 2002, 08:59 AM	#50 (permalink)
Bayleaf48 Hero Of Time Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Barnstaple, North Devon Posts: 2,980	Good point there Emily! :blush:

3rd September 2002, 12:59 PM	#51 (permalink)
EmilyH MN Sci-fi Fan Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Eagan, MN, USA Posts: 529	Thanks! I'm hoping the e-book format will catch on eventually because it allows short-story & poetry authors to easily publish & distribute a book online. Perhaps more people will be readers of sci-fi someday.

4th September 2002, 05:15 AM	#52 (permalink)
ZachWZ Pre 1986 Comics Fan Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ottawa county MI USA Posts: 590	I know what people are talking when it comes to book lenghth. Jules Verne was long winded. Yet i don't care Captain nemo's ship in 20,000 leages under the sea. the nautius Yet all of the operation are correct and still used in today's subs. the descriptions help enhance the readers image of Nemo as a science super geinus. The ocean sections lend proff to the reader that the ship is realloy in extordinary dephs. Note:The translation quaility of Verne's works in other languages varies. I read a modern book called the Talk show Murders here's what it had. The dective stuffing a turkey for 10 pages. two cops under her whose life stories we get to know that do nothing. A recap of about 10 previous books in the series. A sex scene put in to lenthen the book since it didn't help the plot in any way. And a bunch of naration about literly nothing. I do have to mention there's nothing special about the main plot line either. That was my rant. ZachWZ

4th September 2002, 09:14 AM	#53 (permalink)
Bayleaf48 Hero Of Time Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Barnstaple, North Devon Posts: 2,980	I do hope so, as it is a shame that many don't bother :blush:

4th September 2002, 09:38 AM	#54 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,586	I always thought of Verne as quite a compact writer. Even 20,000 Leagues can be read inside a couple of evenings. Yes. He sometimes gets a little emotive in his descriptions and uses long sentences, but they never interfere with the book.

4th September 2002, 09:40 AM	#55 (permalink)
Bayleaf48 Hero Of Time Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Barnstaple, North Devon Posts: 2,980	Then that is good as it helps right? :blush:

4th September 2002, 10:04 AM	#56 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,586	Right!

4th September 2002, 10:06 AM	#57 (permalink)
Bayleaf48 Hero Of Time Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Barnstaple, North Devon Posts: 2,980	Then surely books like that are going 2 be interesting 2 read, but yet some people will complain about them being 2 long :blush:

4th September 2002, 10:29 AM	#58 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,586	Zach didn't say the book is too long. If you've never read '20,000 Leagues Under the Sea', or any other Verne novels, it is a little difficult to explain. (Highly recommend the Puffin Classics version of all of his) The thing is. If the description fits where it goes and does something for the overall atmosphere, or progress of the story, then that is good. For instance Lord of the Rings is full of description, yet it all falls into place and adds atmosphere. On the other hand, if he had launched into a ten page description of the shades of dark in Moria. Then I would suggest this would be over the top.

4th September 2002, 11:30 AM	#59 (permalink)
Bayleaf48 Hero Of Time Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Barnstaple, North Devon Posts: 2,980	True, so a limit is there, it's just up 2 the authors whether they heed it or not :blush:

3rd October 2002, 01:42 PM	#60 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,586	There are guidelines and a lot depends upon what people are trying to write. On the whole, Fantasy books are slower and longer than average. They have to be, because the descriptions need to be more lurid to create the atmosphere. In this case, perhaps, half a page of words is necessary to explain what the water is doing when our hero goes fishing. If the story is Action based, then you expect the whole story to progress quickly and you read accordingly. In the whole fishing scenario from above, you would expect the whole scenario to be over and done with within a couple of pages, including the man-eating shark (Unless that is the basis of the story). Less descriptive is required, it is what is happening that matters- So the sea is now simply heavy and grey, not, 'Flickering white foam like galloping horses cavorted of the wildly tossing silver grey swells as Neptune.. etc.' An Adventure story would probably fit somewhere between the two.