Is SF becoming ashamed of itself?

[Highlander II]

You know what books need?

PROMOTION!

How many commercials do you see on tv for books? Very few.

How are ppl to know that there are great sci-fi books out there w/o being told? And since all these ppl claim that the world (or at least the US and parts of Europe) are so attached to their TV's - if ya want ppl to read - show them the books! Let them know that they are there --

Not only that, but TEACH kids how to read - and I'm not just talking about the 'decoding' part of reading - I'm talking about the 'comprehension' part. (Just read an article about this) I have a feeling that a lot of ppl stop reading b/c they don't learn how to read 'critically' and absorb everything from the book. So, longer, more complex sentences and such don't make it through to them; they get lost.

Sure, there are other ways to get ppl to read, but it's not very promising if you have to 'bribe' kids to read.

[ray gower]

How would you do a television advert for a book?

Can't rely on a picture of a book. It is just a bunch of paper between stiffened covers. Don't think it would come over particularly well to the peasants.
It is the ideas that it contains that makes it more.
Try and explain something like that in a ten second commercial?

I agree. I would like to see more focus on reading in schools and at home. But teaching comprehension needs something well beyond the abilities of the average school English teacher. I know, they tried with me and I hated every book they tried to make me comprehend.

[Bayleaf48]

I thought reading was only meant for pleasure & enjoyment as that's why my sister reads because she likes 2

[Highlander II]

TV adverts for books - they've done them before - but usually for books that don't interest me - it could be done - not necessarily an advert intending to 'sell' the book, but maybe one to inform ppl that author X has just released a new book. They do it w/ tv shows ---- ***Dick Wolf's newest incarnation of the Law & Order saga....*** you know - stuff like that - they could do the same with books - it might not be the most effective way, but it would be 'a' way -

The other thing - make reading fun! Or, instead of teachers assigning some of the really boring stuff they assign, assign fun stuff! I mean, how many ppl had to read 25 Shakespearean plays in High School? (No, I'm not saying Ole Will is a bad guy, but come on - how many can you read if you're really not that interested?) Or Charles Dickens' "Great Expectations" (Yes, I hated that book - and I never actually read it - "Tale of Two Cities," OTOH, I kind of liked). It's like the teachers don't put any imagination into what they have you read. Like something written by Dean Koontz couldn't have the same literary impact as F. Scott Fitzgerald (just examples, please don't jump on me, and yeah - I like FSF, btw).

I would have much rather read "Frankenstein" in school than Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer (not a Mark Twain fan), or The Count of Monte Cristo - or even something more modern - like some of the sci-fi and fantasy stuff. But, apparantly, in schools sci-fi/fantasy - w/ the exception of "Brave New World" - is a 'no no' -- or that's the way it seems.

And I'm mostly rambling now - it's quarter to 1700 and I'm ready to go home --- so, if any of this made sense - then I'm doing better than I thought.

[Bayleaf48]

True, 1 of the main reasons that I don't read much any more is that whilst at school, I had 2 read Shakespear

But saying that though, people just aren't aware of new books coming out

[ray gower]

Originally posted by Bayleaf48
I thought reading was only meant for pleasure & enjoyment as that's why my sister reads because she likes 2

Quite right!

Reading should be a pleasure!

But to get the most pleasure possible out of what you've read, surely you need to understand what is happening and why?

The ideal book should carry one along on a continuous flow, dragging one in deeper into the story that is unfurling, all but physically stopping one from putting it down.

It does not need to be complicated with contortions in plot and irrelevant back tracking.

It certainly does not need to be dissected sentence by sentence ala English Comprehension lessons.

All it needs is something to catch a youngsters imagination. Personally, I started my son reading on the Famous Five, much to the chagrin of my ex-wife (a teacher).
Okay, Enid Blyton is not the world's best writer, and some libraries have scrapped all of her books. But she could write a story to capture a youngster's interest.
We could then progress to the heavier 'Swallows and Amazons' and 'Wind in the Willows'.

[Bayleaf48]

I started reading 'The Famous 5' & since having 2 do Shakespear at school, haven't found reading 2 be such a pleasure any more

[ZachWZ]

Most of the bestsellers of today are writen with a movie in mind. Since Bestsellers set the trend and are writen for the dumded down audiance. It dosen't set well for the other books and non mainstream genres.

Also, nearly all of the book in the Sci Fi/Fantasy catagory are books in a series of military Sci Fi or Fantasy that sound to much like lord of the ring, and then their's Vampire porn.

Regarding school reading lists. In my high it was different, we read mainstream stuff like, "Where the Red Fern grows" and "Durango Street." Now that I have read Twain, Dumas those previous ones are blown away, even though they are good.

ZachWZ

[Bayleaf48]

I've found that in a lot of books shops, the sci-fi section isn't that large so only a small amount are actually put on sale for the general public 2 buy

[EmilyH]

Hi...

A lot of sci-fi writers start out writing short stories, but it seems that there's not much of a market for the short story anymore. About the only place for a would-be writer to publish a short story is a magazine or an e-zine, and so many of them have word count limits. So heaven forbid if your short story, like many of mine, falls into the 20-40 page length where it's not quite a novel, but not quite a short story either. It might stand a chance being published in an anthology, but anthologies are few and far between, and usually just include stuff from previously published authors.

Plus a lot of publishers won't publish anything from new writers who don't have agents, regardless of whether you're any good. So the Internet is quickly becoming the only means of publication left, and many people still won't read fiction online because of slow modem speeds, or their ISP is expensive, or they just don't like it because they don't want to change their habits. And most people who do surf the net don't want to pay for fiction because they're used to reading fan fiction for free.

New sci-fi & fantasy writers are being left out of the loop, which might be one reason why the published fiction isn't fresh anymore. It's because the publishers are stagnant and unwilling to change.

Big chain stores like Barnes & Noble only offer the bestsellers by well-known authors like Robert Jordan, Terry Goodkind, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, etc, so we also have to go to the Internet nowadays to find books that could be just as good or better, but aren't hyped as much.

As for promotion, I've heard radio ads for some books, but these are usually for mainstream authors like Dean Koontz who have already enjoyed a lot of success. The publishers promote certain authors that they know whose books will sell anyway. But it would be nice for them to promote some sci-fi and fantasy authors as well.

[ray gower]

Hi Emily. Welcome to books!

In the UK, there is a regular book narration spot. 'Book at Bedtime'. It lasts fifteen minutes per night and the books are specially condensed for the show (often by the authors) into either 5 or 10 parts. I know for the radio, fifteen minutes equates to about 3000 words. For films the books is pruned even harder. Yet on the rare occasions I have read the book, either before or afterwards, I can honestly say I have struggled to find the joins in the plot. Usually finding that the book that had sounded good, is in fact a real slog to read. e.g. Captain Cornelli's Mandolin.

This makes me conclude that if a 600 page novel can be successfully compressed into the length of one of my fan-fics, then there is a whole lot of pointless padding going on. Which in most educational circles used to be considered a bad thing. It spoils the flow of the story and therefore the readers concentration.

If the book's author can do the adaptation, then they know they are padding for the sake of adding pages.

Now, I am not saying all books can be compressed like this. Real Fantasy is an obvious one, as they stand as much on their descriptions as for what is happening. But most of the rest can.

So what we are getting are books where the sub-plots over shadow the book's theme, long elaborate decriptions of sometimes very ordinary things loom like fog to bog one down and the whole thing shambles along until it grinds to a halt.

This leads to another and if you are a writer encoraging conclusion. Given the impetous a good fan-fiction can become a fair over long novel.

[EmilyH]

Since I don't listen to books on audio, but read them instead, I can't say I've seen them condensed. However, many fantasy authors, such as Robert Jordan in particular, are known for being windbags. I'll bet his current 8+ book series, the Wheel of Time, could be condensed into half the space if it wasn't for his publishers. And yes, I've read all the WoT books to date.

See what happens when you read the following description:

He ran over the grass to meet the dragon.

Which can turn into:

The knight in gleaming silver plate mail, wielding a glowing blue magical sword, swiftly ran over velvety emerald grass in order to confront his foe, the mighty flame-breathing scaley draconic beast.

This is, of course, the nature of fantasy writing in general, but it can be overdone.

[ray gower]

Sorry. I missed out an important detail in the above.

The stories are read on the radio. BBC Radio 4, to be precise.

I also read a good many. But now-a-days I find I have little patience with a lot of books. If the story hasn't got somewhere in the first fifty pages, I am likely to just fling it back in the bookshelves. My 'Why the Hell did I Buy this Tosh!' shelf is getting rather full.

[EmilyH]

Interesting. I wonder why US radio hasn't done it recently? They used to do radio shows in the past like Superman, the Green Hornet, etc. Probably because they're paranoid of people recording shows and then selling them, just like the music industry...but that's another debate...sigh. Or else cause most people don't have enough time to listen, even if the story is good.

[ray gower]

Superman, brings us to radio play adaptations of books. And they are a totally different kettle of fish.

Besides, the BBC does not have investors, advertisers (or viewers) to appease. What it does have is a requirement for producing educative programming.