Earth's Own Backyard. - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Dave · 14th March 2002, 03:09 PM

We don't hear much about Earth's Solar System in Star Trek. Most likely because the writers were worried that real planetary exploration would catch up with them, just witness Novels about space travel to the planets written in the 1960's and '70's. Unfortunately, that isn't very likely, the snails pace at which it is progressing currently.

We do know that Mars was colonised in 2103, and that it is home to the Utopia Planetia Shipyards. But did we ever find life on Mars? Did we find an ocean under the icy surface of Europa? And was it dead, or full of unusual life-forms surrounding undersea geo-thermal vents?

The Lunar Colonies are mentioned, and Riker says in ST VIII: 'First Contact' about how it was amazing to be looking at the moon without seeing a huge lake and city. That would be 'Lake Armstrong' and 'New Berlin'. But why do ships always return to Earth, and not to Mars or the Moon?

We've been to Jupiter Station, but did we mine the Asteroids, and do people live and work in the belt.

What are your thought?

Tiberius · 14th March 2002, 08:51 PM

They always return to Earth because:

1) It is a very famous place.
2) It has a Starbase in orbit. Jupiter Station is a science center, not much room for other stuff.
3) How better to have Earth (the birthplace of the Federation) than to have ships constatly visiting it?
4) Earth is a major resource.

Utopia Planitia is orbiting Mars, so they do visit Mars sometimes... But they rarely mention it. I wonder why...?

Dave · 15th March 2002, 01:06 AM

Utopia Planetia doesn't orbit Mars, it's a real place, it's one of the seas of Mars, it's on current maps of Mars.

I know Jupiter Station is a science station, it's where Dr. Zimmerman worked, but it shows that we have space stations around the outer planets, so we could have habitable space stations in the asteroid belt too.

I was just wondering that if the Moon and Mars have colonies, they must be quite large by the time of TNG/ DS9/ VOY, and many members of Starfleet may have been born there rather than Earth. We only ever see crew going home to visit family on Earth.

Tiberius · 15th March 2002, 08:59 PM

There have been people born on the moon. Remember that girl who was in Red Squad or whatever?

Besides, who would live in an asteroid belt? I would rather not be crushed by an asteroid collision. lol.

The shipyard Utopia Planitia orbits Mars.

Dave · 16th March 2002, 01:52 AM

Let's call it a draw, my Star Trek Encyclopedia says that the shipyards are both in orbit and on the surface. I think it does that to cover up some plot-hole that we have just discovered here.

There is definately a location on the surface of Mars with that name, its where the Viking 2 probe landed in 1976.

In 'Lifesigns' VOY, Tom says that it would be his perfect date to go to the hills overlooking it in a 1957-model Chevy, and there is also a painting of the 'City of Utopia Planetia' in that same episode.

Neo · 17th March 2002, 01:56 PM

Which version u got DAve...

Dave · 17th March 2002, 05:05 PM

version 3

I'll look up what else it has on the Moon and Jupiter Station sometime.

Dave · 18th March 2002, 10:41 PM

Very little else is written.

But Jupiter Station was just mentioned in 'Silent Enemy' ENT as a place for Armory teams to upgrade the weapons systems of the Enterprise NX-01.

Gaia · 20th March 2002, 05:45 AM

dave, you might have hit it on the head when you said that maybe they were worried that real space exploration would catch up with them...not that that's likelyto happen any time soon!

star trek was often written from a earth-centic perspective. like in voyager...why was everyone so homesick for earth when so many of them aren't even from earth??

why did almost every alien culture mirror some aspect or stage of earth culture? just so we can identify with it?

Dave · 20th March 2002, 10:46 AM

I started a 'Why is the Federation so Earth-Centric?" thread, so yes I do agree with all of that. It isn't just 'Earth-biased' either, I read an essay by someone who made an argument that it is 'Western-civilisation-biased'. We get token African and Asian crewmembers, but they follow Christian holidays even if religion is never actually mentioned. There are planets with non-western cultures, but they are unusual, and it is hard to see how the colonies ever got there.

I didn't agree with everything she said, but the most telling thing is the introduction to the new series 'Enterprise' where we see 'HMS Enterprize', but nothing about sea exploration by Polynesians, Vikings, and Arabs. Then we get a succession of American space vehicles, no Russian involvement at all.

ray gower · 22nd March 2002, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Let's call it a draw, my Star Trek Encyclopedia says that the shipyards are both in orbit and on the surface. I think it does that to cover up some plot-hole that we have just discovered here.

Logically it would have to be both.
Million tonne Starships can only be assembled in space. There is no way of launching them otherwise.
Similarly most of the assemblies could only be effectively built with the help of gravity, otherwise all those self-sealing stembolts will disappear in directions of their own choosing. Not a good idea, 80% of all aircraft take off and landing accidents are due to FOD on the runway.

Tiberius · 22nd March 2002, 02:22 PM

Plus, I heard that the Utopia Planitia shipyards are based in Mars' orbit, but they are almost fully automated because they recieve materials from Mars' surface via drone. THat may explain the "City of Utopia Planitia"...

14th March 2002, 03:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 13,774 Blog Entries: 1	Earth's Own Backyard. We don't hear much about Earth's Solar System in Star Trek. Most likely because the writers were worried that real planetary exploration would catch up with them, just witness Novels about space travel to the planets written in the 1960's and '70's. Unfortunately, that isn't very likely, the snails pace at which it is progressing currently. We do know that Mars was colonised in 2103, and that it is home to the Utopia Planetia Shipyards. But did we ever find life on Mars? Did we find an ocean under the icy surface of Europa? And was it dead, or full of unusual life-forms surrounding undersea geo-thermal vents? The Lunar Colonies are mentioned, and Riker says in ST VIII: 'First Contact' about how it was amazing to be looking at the moon without seeing a huge lake and city. That would be 'Lake Armstrong' and 'New Berlin'. But why do ships always return to Earth, and not to Mars or the Moon? We've been to Jupiter Station, but did we mine the Asteroids, and do people live and work in the belt. What are your thought?

16th March 2002, 01:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 13,774 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Utopia Planetia Shipyards. Let's call it a draw, my Star Trek Encyclopedia says that the shipyards are both in orbit and on the surface. I think it does that to cover up some plot-hole that we have just discovered here. There is definately a location on the surface of Mars with that name, its where the Viking 2 probe landed in 1976. In 'Lifesigns' VOY, Tom says that it would be his perfect date to go to the hills overlooking it in a 1957-model Chevy, and there is also a painting of the 'City of Utopia Planetia' in that same episode.

18th March 2002, 10:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 13,774 Blog Entries: 1	Jupiter Station Very little else is written. But Jupiter Station was just mentioned in 'Silent Enemy' ENT as a place for Armory teams to upgrade the weapons systems of the Enterprise NX-01.

14th March 2002, 08:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tiberius Fleet Admiral Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 282	They always return to Earth because: 1) It is a very famous place. 2) It has a Starbase in orbit. Jupiter Station is a science center, not much room for other stuff. 3) How better to have Earth (the birthplace of the Federation) than to have ships constatly visiting it? 4) Earth is a major resource. Utopia Planitia is orbiting Mars, so they do visit Mars sometimes... But they rarely mention it. I wonder why...?

15th March 2002, 01:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 13,774 Blog Entries: 1	Utopia Planetia doesn't orbit Mars, it's a real place, it's one of the seas of Mars, it's on current maps of Mars. I know Jupiter Station is a science station, it's where Dr. Zimmerman worked, but it shows that we have space stations around the outer planets, so we could have habitable space stations in the asteroid belt too. I was just wondering that if the Moon and Mars have colonies, they must be quite large by the time of TNG/ DS9/ VOY, and many members of Starfleet may have been born there rather than Earth. We only ever see crew going home to visit family on Earth.

15th March 2002, 08:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tiberius Fleet Admiral Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 282	There have been people born on the moon. Remember that girl who was in Red Squad or whatever? Besides, who would live in an asteroid belt? I would rather not be crushed by an asteroid collision. lol. The shipyard Utopia Planitia orbits Mars.

17th March 2002, 01:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Neo Red Pixie Boot Wearer Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: North West UK Posts: 4,303	Which version u got DAve...

17th March 2002, 05:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 13,774 Blog Entries: 1	version 3 I'll look up what else it has on the Moon and Jupiter Station sometime.

20th March 2002, 05:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
Gaia luvs ascifi!! Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 36	dave, you might have hit it on the head when you said that maybe they were worried that real space exploration would catch up with them...not that that's likelyto happen any time soon! star trek was often written from a earth-centic perspective. like in voyager...why was everyone so homesick for earth when so many of them aren't even from earth?? why did almost every alien culture mirror some aspect or stage of earth culture? just so we can identify with it?

20th March 2002, 10:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 13,774 Blog Entries: 1	I started a 'Why is the Federation so Earth-Centric?" thread, so yes I do agree with all of that. It isn't just 'Earth-biased' either, I read an essay by someone who made an argument that it is 'Western-civilisation-biased'. We get token African and Asian crewmembers, but they follow Christian holidays even if religion is never actually mentioned. There are planets with non-western cultures, but they are unusual, and it is hard to see how the colonies ever got there. I didn't agree with everything she said, but the most telling thing is the introduction to the new series 'Enterprise' where we see 'HMS Enterprize', but nothing about sea exploration by Polynesians, Vikings, and Arabs. Then we get a succession of American space vehicles, no Russian involvement at all.

22nd March 2002, 02:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tiberius Fleet Admiral Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 282	Plus, I heard that the Utopia Planitia shipyards are based in Mars' orbit, but they are almost fully automated because they recieve materials from Mars' surface via drone. THat may explain the "City of Utopia Planitia"...