Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums - View Single Post

j. d. worthington · 8th July 2006, 01:06 AM

I've got to admit I've not read a single one of the WoT series. That's because reading Jordan's Conan novels in the '80s so repulsed me with the way he handled women, who came in two types: the stereotypical "whore with the heart of gold" who was so sweet she made my teeth ache, or the "castrating b****h" who was on the far side of psychotic on the issue.

Which brings me to another point: It's odd to me that many of the older writers, up until the 1950s or so, were much better at having female characters in fantasy that had some strength to them; they were more rounded, fully-realized characters than what has largely come after (with some notable exceptions). Certainly this latter is true with the Howardian pastichists in the main; only a few of those writing REH-influenced work in the latter 1970s and early 1980s steered away from that. Even Howard, though not creating a great number of truly memorable female -- in comparison to male -- characters, tended to not make them as one- or two-dimensional as that. In the few cases he did, it was usually with tongue-in-cheek, sending up the stereotype (as with Muriela in "Jewels of Gwahlur", where he actually uses the phrase, after yet another rescue by Conan, that "she went into the usual clinch"; this was not bad writing; Howard was thumbing his nose at the idea without doing without a paycheck). If one reads his work carefully, it's obvious he was fascinated by strong women, or women who, through adversity, learned how strong they were; and no few of his women characters either save his hero's bacon, or become valuable sword-companions along the way. This is something that his pasticheurs would do well to study more closely, considering a lifelong bachelor in a particularly sexist time and state could pull it off better than they.

Overall, I began seeing this trend really taking serious form around the mid-80s, and it has just gotten worse, from what I've seen, in fantasy in general. There are exceptions, but that's just it: they are the exceptions. I can't stand flat characters, period, male or female, in general. And with writers doing books of this size, spending so much time with their characters, for my money there's no excuse for it at all.

8th July 2006, 01:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
j. d. worthington Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,468	Re: Let's coin a new term: "Wotism" I've got to admit I've not read a single one of the WoT series. That's because reading Jordan's Conan novels in the '80s so repulsed me with the way he handled women, who came in two types: the stereotypical "whore with the heart of gold" who was so sweet she made my teeth ache, or the "castrating b****h" who was on the far side of psychotic on the issue. Which brings me to another point: It's odd to me that many of the older writers, up until the 1950s or so, were much better at having female characters in fantasy that had some strength to them; they were more rounded, fully-realized characters than what has largely come after (with some notable exceptions). Certainly this latter is true with the Howardian pastichists in the main; only a few of those writing REH-influenced work in the latter 1970s and early 1980s steered away from that. Even Howard, though not creating a great number of truly memorable female -- in comparison to male -- characters, tended to not make them as one- or two-dimensional as that. In the few cases he did, it was usually with tongue-in-cheek, sending up the stereotype (as with Muriela in "Jewels of Gwahlur", where he actually uses the phrase, after yet another rescue by Conan, that "she went into the usual clinch"; this was not bad writing; Howard was thumbing his nose at the idea without doing without a paycheck). If one reads his work carefully, it's obvious he was fascinated by strong women, or women who, through adversity, learned how strong they were; and no few of his women characters either save his hero's bacon, or become valuable sword-companions along the way. This is something that his pasticheurs would do well to study more closely, considering a lifelong bachelor in a particularly sexist time and state could pull it off better than they. Overall, I began seeing this trend really taking serious form around the mid-80s, and it has just gotten worse, from what I've seen, in fantasy in general. There are exceptions, but that's just it: they are the exceptions. I can't stand flat characters, period, male or female, in general. And with writers doing books of this size, spending so much time with their characters, for my money there's no excuse for it at all.