Metal

[cacotopos]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Interesting! I've never seen Industrial referred to as a form of Metal. So you'd say bands like Skinny Puppy, Download and Suicide Commando are heavy metal? I've always thought industrial (or post industrial, or whatever) was a bit different from metal. The complete lack of guitars in many industrial songs, for example - doesn't seem like metal. I know Fear Factory confused things a bit, but most bands don't cross the two, and even when FF did, they lost piles of metal fans. (At least, they lost plenty of metal fans I knew.)

From allmuicguide.com:

While pure industrial takes its primary cues from experimental music and electronic dance, Industrial Metal makes the distorted noise of electric guitars a crucial part of the music. Some industrial metal bands base their songs around metal-style guitar riffs, while others use the instrument more for the harsh, abrasive textures it can create. Either way, industrial metal generally possesses greater aggressive force than straight-ahead industrial, which helped the style cross over to metal and alternative audiences accustomed to guitar-driven music. Industrial metal lyrics also mirror the darkness and aggression of standard heavy metal, although the sensibility is filtered through the personal alienation of punk and alternative rock. Whether its rage is turned inward at the self or outward at society, industrial metal is unremittingly bleak and angst-ridden, using its pounding walls of noise as expressions of near-hopeless alienation from the rest of the world. Ministry was the first band to popularize industrial metal in the late '80s, basing their signature grind on countless repetitions of jackhammer guitar riffs, as well as electronics, samples, and distorted vocals; however, it was Nine Inch Nails that really brought the sound to the mainstream during the early '90s, thanks to Trent Reznor's flair for melodic songwriting and multi-layered production. In the wake of NIN's success, a number of similar-sounding bands popped up on alternative radio, and toward the end of the decade, a number of popular alternative metal bands appropriated industrial metal's electronic production touches into their hybrid of aggressive music styles.

Some bands, also from allmusic.com:

Fear Factory
Nine Inch Nails
Rammstein
Marilyn Manson
Godflesh
Bile
Godsmack
Orgy
Lard
Gravity Kills
Coal Chamber
Front 242

Hope this helps,

[mikeo]

Originally Posted by cacotopos

From allmuicguide.com:

(lots of stuff that reminds me of rec.music.industrial debates deleted)

Some bands, also from allmusic.com:

Fear Factory
Nine Inch Nails
Rammstein
Marilyn Manson
Godflesh
Bile
Godsmack
Orgy
Lard
Gravity Kills
Coal Chamber
Front 242

Hope this helps,

I think the allmusicguide and I are just going to have to disagree on this one - I see most of these as metal bands, some as industrial bands. I think I gain the upper hand by noting they claim Front 242 are the same sort of band as Marilyn Manson and Fear Factory. pfft!

[Spook]

I agree with Mikeo. I think calling Coal Chamber and Godsmack 'industrial metal' is wrong to be honest. It's also rather confusing to micro-categorise music like that. It's either Metal or Industrial.

[cacotopos]

Well if you look on the band profiles on the site, you see that they have many different styles of music for each band, the way the site categorizes bands is that it accepts bands have many different elements and influences in their respective sounds.

For example Front 242 are listed as having

Industrial
Industrial Dance
Industrial Metal
Techno
Electro-Industrial
Alt. Pop-Rock
Alt. Metal

These are all 'styles' or influences in the bands sound, without necessarily saying they are just like this or that.

Marilyn Manson has

Heavy Metal
Alt Metal
Industrial Metal

There is overlap in the influenced sounds of each, it also has something to do with Manson using processed sounds, if only in a limited capacity, with a 'dark' set of undertones, just like Front 242's grimy monolithic sound which itself has bleeded into using meta,l if not anything like exclusively.

Sorry, I don't mean to go on, but AMG is more loose and expressive in describing different artists than my quotes gives credit.

And I didn't mean to use the Industrial Metal term to categorize as such, I meant it is an element in that artists music.

I apologize for my pedantic-ness

[kyektulu]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Interesting! I've never seen Industrial referred to as a form of Metal. So you'd say bands like Skinny Puppy, Download and Suicide Commando are heavy metal? I've always thought industrial (or post industrial, or whatever) was a bit different from metal. I know Fear Factory confused things a bit, but most bands don't cross the two, and even when FF did, they lost piles of metal fans. (At least, they lost plenty of metal fans I knew.)*

I understand what you mean mikeo, 2 be honest I didnt think industrial music was metal untill a mate of mine named Jamie sat me down late one night in the pub and rambled on about it for ages (dont worry I wont subject you 2 the lecture) I think of industrial metal bands are ones like skinny puppy and ministry.

By the way I totally agree with your mates who stopped liking fear factory when they went chumpy, I know I dont like thier music of late. I was gutted when they changed.

[mikeo]

Originally Posted by kyektulu

By the way I totally agree with your mates who stopped liking fear factory when they went chumpy, I know I dont like thier music of late. I was gutted when they changed.

Yeah? It's sort of funny - at the time I was hanging out with a lot of rivetheads, so the remix FF album (who did the remixes? was it Frontline Assembly? must google...) which really took them into industrial territory was the first I heard of them. I remember being quite dissapointed when I went out and bought the pre-remix album..

Ministry though - they were industrial, and I suppose one could say that Psalm 69 was their crossover album, but their second most recent - houses of the mole, is very definitely metal in my ears.. Ah heck, I guess at the end of the day, it's sort of debatable isn't it? I'm listening to mole at the moment, and you can't really deny the industrial influences on a metal album... Great album though - Al is one of my faves in music, and it's the best album he's done since he got off the heroin. Ministry were on what I like to call purchase probation after Filth Pig, but have definitely redeemed themselves.

Say, do you have Rantology? I'm just about to order it, would be curious to know what you think of it. Good? Is it more metal, or more industrial?

[cornelius]

finally! fellow metalheads! I have a broad vision on metal, from Children of Bothom over Amon Amarth to Korn... this isn't really the best line, I know
here are some of my favourite bands

Korn
Iron Maiden
Rammstein
System of a down
Children of bodom
Amon Amarth (though my knowledge on this group still needs to expand)
Slipknot (not everything)
Marilyn manson
audioslave
Nine inch nails
the deftones
slayer
soulfly
Metallica (dooooooooyyy)

and many others

[Marky Lazer]

Metal bands I saw live:

Slipknot
Iron Maiden
Black Sabbath
Soulfly
Slayer
Metallica
Dimmu Borgir
Cradle of Filth
Mastodon
Rammstein
Audioslave
Motorhead
After Forever
Within Temptation
Epica
Gorefest
Metal Chruch

And I'm sure I forgot a bunch.

[Rosemary]

Sorry but I just cannot define them as so many various types of metal - whether industrial or Alt Metal.

To me they are all Heavy Metal....as in Metallica, Black Sabbath, Nirvana and Iron Maiden et. Admittedly they are all rather 'old' bands now but they still sound like Heavy Metal to me and I still like their music.

However I have heard Cradle of Filth and Marylin Manson being referred to as Gothic Metal over here in Australia...and to be quite honest I do not like Marylin Manson.

Just my little input....

[Marky Lazer]

I agree on Manson. I don't like its music and the 'image' is rather pathetic.

[cornelius]

have to agree on the image, is kinda sad for poor old Brian.

nevertheless, some of his song are really great (in my opinion, that is)

I saw audioslave live, and I wasn't quite impressed...

[kyektulu]

Originally Posted by Marky Lazer

I agree on Manson. I don't like its music and the 'image' is rather pathetic.

I second and third that.

[cornelius]

He does go to far from time to time

but sometimes he has some nice clips, like the one for the soundtrack for" not another teen movie"

[Rosemary]

I shall stick to the 'old' bands...the ones that we 'head bangers' went wild over...

[cornelius]

you mean like Metallica, choldren of bodom, Iron maiden and such?