Why is the Federation so Earth-centric?

[Dave]

OK for our next discussion topic, here's something they are discussing at the Trek Today Board. They ask "Why did the Earth found the Federation?" Only I'm not sure anyone said they did -- one of the founding members, certainly. I'd rather enlarge the argument

BEWARE: Some SPOILERS for 'Enterprise' are bound to arise here.

In 'Enterprise' it is clear that Vulcans and Andorians don't get along. (But then Vulcans seem to annoy everyone.) Maybe it takes a mutual enemy (Romulans) to bring them together, and a neutral venue (Earth) to base the Federation.

One thing is clear though -- it is a very Earth-centric Federation.

Even though, in 'Enterprise', Vulcans have explored more of space than us and we use their starcharts, Earth lies in the centre of sector 001. Isn't that strange?

Even though the Vulcans and Andorians in 'Enterprise' are far more technically advanced that us, the Federation uses an Earth based Starfleet, with Starfleet ship designs. (and we only just invented Warp-drive.)

And not only Starfleet Command, but the office of the Federation President, & the Federation Council Chamber are all based on Earth. Wouldn't they spread them around equally to be fair?

Then you have space stations called Deep Space Nine and Deep Space K-7, and 'Farpoint' Station . Deep and Far from where exactly? They seem to be slap-bang in the middle of the action to me, but they are a long way from 'Earth'.

And why do all the aliens we meet look basically the same as humans? (well that's a thread topic on it's own.)

[Highlander II]

ooh ooh ooh -- good topic -- and something i've been wondering about myself ---

most of the aliens are very 'humanoid' --- (we know this is really b/c it's easier to find actors and such, but that's not really the point) -- so are we to assume that one day some 'alien' ran around the galaxy dropping bits of 'DNA' or something onto lots of planets just to see what would come about in a few million or so years??

but- about the Federation - yes, why IS the Federation centered on Earth? did all the planets take a vote and they picked Earth? somehow i don't think that was the case - were arguments presented and a decision made by a council? how exactly did they decide? has that ever been mentioned on the show??

more and more and more questions......

[ray gower]

Don't know anything about the Andorrans. But the Vulcans seem laid back and potentially isolationist, content in letting others to get on with things, unless it stops them enjoying whatever it is they enjoy.

Humans in comparison are over impetuous and over enthusiastic, bouncing around like hyperactive children, not to mention that we breed quickly.

Suggests that somebody on Earth suggested an alliance was a good idea. The Vulcans accepted for a quiet life and by the time they found out what it meant, humans had deposited themselves on so many planets it would be impossible to stop them.

Besides the Andorrans are foreign

[Dave]

Originally posted by Highlander II
most of the aliens are very 'humanoid' --- (we know this is really b/c it's easier to find actors and such, but that's not really the point) -- so are we to assume that one day some 'alien' ran around the galaxy dropping bits of 'DNA' or something onto lots of planets just to see what would come about in a few million or so years??

Rent the TNG episode "The Chase" -- H2 you just wrote the plot! But that doesn't explain the Gamma and Delta Quadrant aliens we see.

On the main subject: If you look at an example of a 'Federation' of separate Sovereign states: the EU lets say, they would never allow all the powerful institutions to be based in one Country. So we have the Parliament in one place, Trade Marks in another, Council of Ministers somewhere else, Financial center elsewhere. If they put them all in Germany or Britain then France would explode!

Even in a country that has been together for as long as, and is as homogenous as the USA has an East-coast : West -coast rivalry.

Given that, it doesn't seem conceivable to me for all the institutions to be on Earth. Unless aliens do not bother about these matters as much as Humans do.

[Highlander II]

Originally posted by Dave
Rent the TNG episode "The Chase" -- H2 you just wrote the plot! But that doesn't explain the Gamma and Delta Quadrant aliens we see.

actually - that's probably exactly where i got that from - i think i remember watching that ep and them mentioning someting like that -- this is why i have problems citing sources when i write research papers - i read/hear something and can never remember where, and i have no source from which to quote - drives professors crazy!

as for Gamma and Delta quadrant aliens - hmmmmm - ya got me on that one --

On the main subject: If you look at an example of a 'Federation' of separate Sovereign states: the EU lets say, they would never allow all the powerful institutions to be based in one Country. So we have the Parliament in one place, Trade Marks in another, Council of Ministers somewhere else, Financial center elsewhere. If they put them all in Germany or Britain then France would explode!

Even in a country that has been together for as long as, and is as homogenous as the USA has an East-coast : West -coast rivalry.

Given that, it doesn't seem conceivable to me for all the institutions to be on Earth. Unless aliens do not bother about these matters as much as Humans do.

yeah - they probably wouldn't be too keen on that - and i'm still not sure why everything is based on Earth - unless there are parts of the Federation located elsewhere that we don't know about --- (and the Maquis don't count)

doesn't the Federation have 'ambassadors' that travel all around the Federation? and to other non-Fed planets? i know that's not the same as spreading out the various 'branches' of the Federation hierarchy, but it's a little something ---

[Neo]

well seems like i missed hte subject,,, seems like u covered it all..

[Dave]

Seems Neo is always keen to close these discussions

After watching the 'Enterprise' episodes with Vulcans and Andorians, I am even more uncertain how they would ever agree to join a Federation based on Earth.

[Neo]

hey unfair.. I am just saying you seem to have it wrapped up..

I aggree that it does seem unlikely that the vulcans would join an 'Earth' federation as they seem so anti earth at the moment...

[Jax]

I tend to think of it more like the colonisation of America (if I can remember my American history)

The colonists originally came from Europe across the sea and began to populate the east coast. Then as they spread out, they tamed the wild west right through to california with the railroads etc.

Well my geography is as patchy as my history but although it is the United States, the capital is still over in the east coast in washington.

I would see the Federation building in the same way. Because it is Earth based, it would have to have begun on Earth. Lets say Earth decides to create a new Federation and aproach other worlds in an attempt to forge alliances with them and create laws or 'prime directives' for its members to follow. Even if the Vulcans were sceptical at first, the Federation will soon grow into one of the greatest powers in the quadrant and it would be illogical for the Vulcans to remain alone while everyone around them grew stronger.

Not to mention letting the arrogant humans bring peace and stability to the quadrant without their 'guidance'

[Dave]

Originally posted by Jax
I tend to think of it more like the colonisation of America (if I can remember my American history)

The colonists originally came from Europe across the sea and began to populate the east coast. Then as they spread out, they tamed the wild west right through to california with the railroads etc.

That is how Gene Roddenberry imagined 'Star Trek', as 'Waggon Train to the Stars'. So, it has a good pedigree.

Unfortunately, in 'Enterprise' the Alpha and Beta Quadrants are not an unpopulated paradise, ripe for colonisation.They are full of many alien species who already claim vast areas as their own i.e. Xindii, Klingons, Andorians.

In 'Damage' ENT the man from the future, Daniels, tells Archer that the Federation is formed from an alliance of Humans, Vulcans, Andorians and Illyrians. None of these races appear to get along at the moment, and are still squabbling 100 years later in TOS, so I think that an analogy to the UN or the EU is closer than the kind of Imperialist conquest you describe.

But I think that geographically speaking, Earth is probably in the centre of the Federation, so having the HQ at the shortest distance between all corners does make a great deal of sense.

it still doesn't explain "Sector 001" though, considering the fact that we use Vulcan Star Charts. Or the fact that we straddle the Alpha/ Beta Quadrant -- who decided on the Quadrant borders? -- why not place the Federation squarely in the centre of a Quadrant?

[Jax]

That's a good point. In Babylon 5 the Terran system is sector 100, (pressumably due to the fact that the Humans are one of the newest races to the stars, and the galaxy must have been mapped long before Humans began to explore)

It stands to reason that all the different races would have to use the same map, in order to trade and mark out their borders. To that end, sector 001 should be Vulcan, or an older race. It would have been in use long before Archer set out on his mission.

I can only assume that if, and when, the Humans founded the Federation, they must have insisted that everyone use their chart,(with Earth at the Centre)

[pajpah]

new to this forum.. big ST fan.. and i think i have an explanation. (Lets see if i can make this clear enough :P )

Its easy to assume that the human race wasnt the most powerfull race wenn the Federation was formed. Lets say they where the least powerfull race. So basicly they would have the smallest advantage if the base where posted on earth. Thus everyone agrees to put the base on earth. I can elaborate this idea further but im to tired at this time. Hope someone understands what i mean.

[Dave]

Originally posted by pajpah
...the human race wasnt the most powerfull race wenn the Federation was formed. Lets say they where the least powerfull race. So basicly they would have the smallest advantage if the base where posted on earth. Thus everyone agrees to put the base on earth.

I understand what you mean, and I'm sure that we could find present day Earth organisations that have put their headquarters in neutral countries. I can't think of any off my head -- maybe the Red Cross in Switzerland?

But unfortunately, 'Enterprise' is showing Earth to be a driving force in this Federation formation with the current exploits of Archer. It could yet be that the Vulcans and Andorians reach such an impasse that they would only allow the headquarters to be built on Earth. I could accept that as an explanation

[imported_EdOtt]

Picard from france
Kirk is from Iowa
sisko from New Orleans(maybe thats y i like him so much)
archer new york
janeway Indiana

every captain from earth, Hmmm seems like prejudice to me. Plenty of humans on the moon, mars or one of the other colonies which could command a ship/space station.