How short is too short? - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

polymorphikos · 3rd May 2004, 08:41 AM

In short, how short can a novel be before it is considered a short-coming, and the publisher deems it a short-story not worth publishing as per their guidlines?

knivesout · 3rd May 2004, 08:48 AM

From what I've seen, anything less than 1000-1500 words now conveniently falls into a new category called 'flash fiction'. Not all publications accept this format though. Still, going by the fact that most publishers pay per word, I see no reason anyone would reject a strong work because it is shorter than normal.

I, Brian · 3rd May 2004, 09:35 AM

For a sff novel my personal understanding is that you're talking around 80,000-120,000 as an ideal length for a first timer - preferrably somewhere around 100,000 though.

Hypes · 3rd May 2004, 01:19 PM

The 100,000 words estimate sounds like a likely size to please the editors. good round number for a beginner as well. In short, what Tea-boy said, bless him.

Whaat? It beats saying I agree! So instead I simply reword his reply and claim it my own. Plagiarism 101. ::cough:: This line of discussion is not one I'd like to pursue, actually, so never you mind.

::strolls away whistling innocently::

Vodstok · 3rd May 2004, 01:41 PM

most publishers i have looke dinto (magazines and such) seem to list between 5,000 and 10,000 words for what they will accept. Others top out at 7,500.

incidently, my short story father dillon's funeral has a word count of Exactly 7,500 words.

that was not on purpose.

polymorphikos · 3rd May 2004, 03:58 PM

It's just that my story'll probably sit around 40,000 words, and I can't really flesh it out a great deal without making it watery and dull. Bugger, now'll I'll have to add pointless scenes en route to the main story, and lots of dull dialogue where it's not needed, and ramble on about very little for the ending (which I've got worked out but doubt will make the 20,000 words). Still, it can be done. Thankyou.

I, Brian · 3rd May 2004, 09:41 PM

Throw in a summary of the plot in another thread, and I'll have it extended for you - if you want to face the challenge.

Hypes · 3rd May 2004, 09:41 PM

In the same vein, what would you lot say is the ideal chapter length, strictly word wise?

I, Brian · 3rd May 2004, 09:59 PM

Ideal? Depends upon the tone and emotions - and the sens eof conflict - being communicated.

My personal rule of thumb is that the first 3 chapters must be well paced and relatively short - because those are the very words that an agent and/or editor will decide whether to read or reject your submission.

Hypes · 3rd May 2004, 11:13 PM

Thank you. That was what I had in mind.

polymorphikos · 4th May 2004, 01:19 AM

I don't know about you, Brian. You seem nice and well-meaning, but I've got a feeling that if I gave you a plot summary, you'd take my nice little adventure yarn and throw in a deep philosophical dilemma, two wars, and a quest to fell the purple Snroot.

I, Brian · 4th May 2004, 07:51 AM

Well...if you want to find a way to extend your story.

In part, it sounds like an interesting challenge - but perhaps we can all try that with a less personal scenario?

Not at all sure what the market is like for novellas, though. Anyone else have ideas on this?

Btw - my earlier comment on the first 3 chapters was about hooking the editor/agent quickly, and then leave them hanging and wanting more. That is actually who I have in mind as the reader when I'm writing.

Hypes · 4th May 2004, 09:07 AM

Wars make marvellously good padding, in my humble opinion.

And besides, they're fun to write. Have to admit that.
Of course, I'd never dream of adding an entire war to my world simply for the sake of an addition 10,000 words. But then again, I just might. I have a love/hate relationship with the inhabitants of my world.

Vodstok · 4th May 2004, 01:37 PM

Tolkien wanted a plot to give flesh to his fantasy world, so he could justify creating elvish. He took a nondescript ring from his first story, gave it a backstory, and it blew up into the greatest fantasy epic yet put to paper. Dont look down on a little padding

I, Brian · 4th May 2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vodstok

Tolkien wanted a plot to give flesh to his fantasy world, so he could justify creating elvish. He took a nondescript ring from his first story, gave it a backstory, and it blew up into the greatest fantasy epic yet put to paper. Dont look down on a little padding

Now there's something to think on.

3rd May 2004, 08:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
polymorphikos Scrofulous Fig-Merchant Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,128	How short is too short? In short, how short can a novel be before it is considered a short-coming, and the publisher deems it a short-story not worth publishing as per their guidlines?

3rd May 2004, 08:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
knivesout cheap,flashy little crook Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,999	Re: How short is too short? From what I've seen, anything less than 1000-1500 words now conveniently falls into a new category called 'flash fiction'. Not all publications accept this format though. Still, going by the fact that most publishers pay per word, I see no reason anyone would reject a strong work because it is shorter than normal.

3rd May 2004, 09:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,452 Blog Entries: 1	Re: How short is too short? For a sff novel my personal understanding is that you're talking around 80,000-120,000 as an ideal length for a first timer - preferrably somewhere around 100,000 though.

3rd May 2004, 01:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hypes medic! Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 982	Re: How short is too short? The 100,000 words estimate sounds like a likely size to please the editors. good round number for a beginner as well. In short, what Tea-boy said, bless him. Whaat? It beats saying I agree! So instead I simply reword his reply and claim it my own. Plagiarism 101. ::cough:: This line of discussion is not one I'd like to pursue, actually, so never you mind. ::strolls away whistling innocently::

3rd May 2004, 01:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Vodstok Gloomy..... Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 77	Re: How short is too short? most publishers i have looke dinto (magazines and such) seem to list between 5,000 and 10,000 words for what they will accept. Others top out at 7,500. incidently, my short story father dillon's funeral has a word count of Exactly 7,500 words. that was not on purpose.

3rd May 2004, 03:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
polymorphikos Scrofulous Fig-Merchant Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,128	Re: How short is too short? It's just that my story'll probably sit around 40,000 words, and I can't really flesh it out a great deal without making it watery and dull. Bugger, now'll I'll have to add pointless scenes en route to the main story, and lots of dull dialogue where it's not needed, and ramble on about very little for the ending (which I've got worked out but doubt will make the 20,000 words). Still, it can be done. Thankyou.

3rd May 2004, 09:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,452 Blog Entries: 1	Re: How short is too short? Throw in a summary of the plot in another thread, and I'll have it extended for you - if you want to face the challenge.

3rd May 2004, 09:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Hypes medic! Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 982	Re: How short is too short? In the same vein, what would you lot say is the ideal chapter length, strictly word wise?

3rd May 2004, 09:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,452 Blog Entries: 1	Re: How short is too short? Ideal? Depends upon the tone and emotions - and the sens eof conflict - being communicated. My personal rule of thumb is that the first 3 chapters must be well paced and relatively short - because those are the very words that an agent and/or editor will decide whether to read or reject your submission.

3rd May 2004, 11:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hypes medic! Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 982	Re: How short is too short? Thank you. That was what I had in mind.

4th May 2004, 01:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
polymorphikos Scrofulous Fig-Merchant Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,128	Re: How short is too short? I don't know about you, Brian. You seem nice and well-meaning, but I've got a feeling that if I gave you a plot summary, you'd take my nice little adventure yarn and throw in a deep philosophical dilemma, two wars, and a quest to fell the purple Snroot.

4th May 2004, 07:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,452 Blog Entries: 1	Re: How short is too short? Well...if you want to find a way to extend your story. In part, it sounds like an interesting challenge - but perhaps we can all try that with a less personal scenario? Not at all sure what the market is like for novellas, though. Anyone else have ideas on this? Btw - my earlier comment on the first 3 chapters was about hooking the editor/agent quickly, and then leave them hanging and wanting more. That is actually who I have in mind as the reader when I'm writing.

4th May 2004, 09:07 AM	#13 (permalink)
Hypes medic! Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 982	Re: How short is too short? Wars make marvellously good padding, in my humble opinion. And besides, they're fun to write. Have to admit that. Of course, I'd never dream of adding an entire war to my world simply for the sake of an addition 10,000 words. But then again, I just might. I have a love/hate relationship with the inhabitants of my world.

4th May 2004, 01:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
Vodstok Gloomy..... Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 77	Re: How short is too short? Tolkien wanted a plot to give flesh to his fantasy world, so he could justify creating elvish. He took a nondescript ring from his first story, gave it a backstory, and it blew up into the greatest fantasy epic yet put to paper. Dont look down on a little padding

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