Jack O. Trades / Jack of All Trades - Page 2 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

{ACA} Spellcaster · 23rd October 2001, 11:54 AM

oh yeah much better.....the story doens't get lost in the confusion that became jack

Willz
:blpaw: :blpaw:

Highlander II · 23rd October 2001, 04:29 PM

not only that, but there's more character development of the actual cast --

season 2's cast was FAR too large - it was Sam, Bailey, George, Grace, John, Angel, Chloe, Jack, Jill, Frances, that other guy (name slips - the black guy from Chicago who took over for Brubaker - sort of) -- that's 11 freaking people! just for the opening credits - what were they thinking?? L&O only has 6 -- even Star Trek didn't have so many --- (Picard, Riker, Data, Troi, Crusher, Geordi, Worf, Wesley, and later O'Brien) - that's 9 -- but it was meant to be an ensemble cast --

Profiler should have only been: Bailey, Sam, John, George, Grace in the opening credits, then include Angel and Chloe in the credits after the ep title -- they weren't in all the eps anyway ---

11 ppl is just a bit much for opening credits for a show of this type - not only that - but it looks bad to go from one set of credits in the 1st season, to adding 15 more ppl for the 2nd, then taking most of those out for the 3rd -- makes the show look unstable --

{ACA} Spellcaster · 25th October 2001, 12:49 PM

Yeah they had way to many permanent cast, but I was sorry to see Angel go, didn't mind seeing Coop go, he annoyed me

But you can see how they couldn't really cut it down much more....ok get rid of jack and jill, which they did, but other than that, they were all useful....

Oh the joys of being a producer, script writer

Willz
:blpaw: :blpaw:

Highlander II · 25th October 2001, 03:10 PM

well, yes, they were important, but not all of them were in EVERY episode -- so, what they should have done, instead, was do the basic cast: Robert Davi, Ally Walker, Julian McMahon, Peter Frechette (sp?), Jack, Caitlin Wachs, and the black guy w/ the bandana, and Grace --- that's 8 , maybe include Angel - 9 --> and then when they actually USED Frances or Jill THEN put them in the credits -- but, still, that's a lot of ppl -- they oversized the cast - it was really weird --

honestly, these are the ones who should be in the opening sequence: Bailey, Sam, Grace, George, John, bandana, Jack --> that's it; if Chloe is in an ep, great, put her in the 'after the subtitle' credits - same w/ Angel and Jill and Frances --

Pretender did it w/ Broots until the last season - he was in like every episode but his name wasn't in the opening sequence until season 4 -

season 2 was just really crowded -- made you feel like you were standing in an 8x8 cell w/ about 40 other people --- almost claustrophobic ---

{ACA} Spellcaster · 26th October 2001, 01:28 PM

true, have the core with a couple of extras in the background like angel and chloe

Now that could work really well

Willz
:blpaw: :blpaw:

Highlander II · 26th October 2001, 03:33 PM

did ya notice we can't seem to stick to talking about Jack?

probably b/c we don't like him ---

he was an annoying character - and i still think that the show should have focused on something other than Sam's obsession with Jack --

{ACA} Spellcaster · 27th October 2001, 02:58 PM

sam and jack's mutual obsession......

and i still think that the best thing about Jack is that he is no more!

Although to say SOMETHING nice about the idiot, he did help the VCTF catch a couple of killers.......even if it was only so they'd get back to him >

Willz
:blpaw: :blpaw:

yeah i did noticed that we couldn't stick to the topic......but hey he's such a nobody

Highlander II · 27th October 2001, 07:48 PM

yeah - Jack's a selfish little snot isn't he?

hey - did ya notice that Jack's mother is Kai Winn from Star Trek: DS9????

tokyogirl · 28th October 2001, 07:00 AM

i'll tell you what my favorite ep with jack was: the ep where he died. not for the same reasons you guys might pick, but because it was so perfect. i mean, sam's been both chasing after and running from this guy for years, and she ends up owing him. he helps her daughter be able to forgive her for spending so much time at work trying to catch him. and chloe will forever remember him for that. i mean, when they find out he's been following her since they were children.....that kind of gave me chills. and then when she kills him-he dies on her husband's grave with a rose in his hand. 2 perfect! it was so poetic. i loved it.

{ACA} Spellcaster · 29th October 2001, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlander II
yeah - Jack's a selfish little bastard isn't he?

hey - did ya notice that Jack's mother is Kai Winn from Star Trek: DS9????

actually i did.....no one believed me at first...then they looked carefully and i showed and eppy of ds9 straight after and they saw it

hey was it actually jack who had been following her her whole life? or was it the other guy who they thought was jack till sam told them that he wasn't :alienooh:

Willz
:blpaw: :blpaw:

Highlander II · 29th October 2001, 04:15 PM

good question Willow -- i dunno -- could have been that other guy - but could have been Jack too --- the 'early' stuff would probably have been that other guy - so, maybe Sam had 2 stalkers -- or Jack was planning something for a very long time -

however, i'm not sure Jack would have been 'that' thorough - they never played up anything about him 'following' Sam when she was younger - just that he killed her husband X yrs before the beginning of the show and she'd been 'running' from him ever since ---

tokyogirl · 29th October 2001, 05:49 PM

yes they did. maybe not actually following her since they were kids, but the murders all had a connection to her. even towards the beginning of the show they found out that one of the people killed before her husband used to run their bookmobile when they were kids. later they found out that another one killed before her husband had some kind of connection, and they implied that all of them probably did. they were in the same sunday school class-he's been obsessed with her for a long time. their sunday school teacher said that he had a crush on her way back then.

Highlander II · 29th October 2001, 07:38 PM

yeah, but was that Jack or the other guy? i thought they discovered that the 'sunday school' crush kid was someone else? they just thought it was Jack for a while --

and, i understand that the murders, even at the beginning of the 'show', were related to Sam in some way, but if you remember the beginning, Bailey brings her 'back' to the VCTF - she had been there, then left -- and there were like 8 original kills before Sam came back - one of which was her husband --

and remember that Jack has an extensive education, mostly in medicine and anatomy, but he knows a great deal about computers too, and many other things, so he couldn't have spent all of his time chasing/stalking Sam, or he wouldn't be the 'professional' murderer that he is (not pro as in getting paid, but in knowing exactly what he's doing) --

and, with the expertise in 'murder' he has, he has probably been doing that for quite some time - you can't plan and go out and do it 'perfectly' the first time - he would have had to practice (murder, i suppose, is a craft like anything else, you have to practice to be good at it) -- so there's much more to Jack than we got from the show (and remember, i haven't seen all of season 3, nor most of season 4) -- we only have what Sam comes up w/ as her 'profile' on Jack -- but i don't recall her going into details about his childhood - (and i could have missed them)

{ACA} Spellcaster · 2nd November 2001, 11:46 AM

sorry tokyogirl, i gotta agree with h2 here, the preschool thing was the other guy.....remember they confronted him at his place when they caught up to him....he had stollen that baby to play out his fantasy of it being his and Sam's kid, but it was all an illusion. He was obsessed, but not jack.

Also i thought bailey brought sam into the case after about 8 of jack's murders, wasn't she not long out of the acadamey? jack only started leaving messages aimed at sam after a couple of murders that sam had been working with the team on it... he only started showing remorse for the killings after she called him a cold blooded murder....or something to that effect....in the papers. his next victim was covered up.

Willz
:blpaw: :blpaw:

Highlander II · 2nd November 2001, 02:01 PM

you could be right, Willz, my memory's really foggy on the first few eps of the series (keep missing those too!) -- Jack's first murders may not have been directed at Sam or related to her - except for the death of her husband --

so - i'm not 100% sure on the early timeline --
but, a lot of that stuff from late season 2/early season 3 - or whenever it is that Jack is pretending to be some cop out in the boonies and is leading the VCTF around by a leash -- it gets really weird and really confusing --

so - i'm waiting for CBS to get around to airing those eps again -
(and hoping my mom elects to get Direct TV so i can have Court TV again! and Showtime!! WOOHOO!)

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23rd October 2001, 11:54 AM	#16 (permalink)
{ACA} Spellcaster Aussie with Addiction! Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,201	oh yeah much better.....the story doens't get lost in the confusion that became jack Willz :blpaw: :blpaw:

23rd October 2001, 04:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	not only that, but there's more character development of the actual cast -- season 2's cast was FAR too large - it was Sam, Bailey, George, Grace, John, Angel, Chloe, Jack, Jill, Frances, that other guy (name slips - the black guy from Chicago who took over for Brubaker - sort of) -- that's 11 freaking people! just for the opening credits - what were they thinking?? L&O only has 6 -- even Star Trek didn't have so many --- (Picard, Riker, Data, Troi, Crusher, Geordi, Worf, Wesley, and later O'Brien) - that's 9 -- but it was meant to be an ensemble cast -- Profiler should have only been: Bailey, Sam, John, George, Grace in the opening credits, then include Angel and Chloe in the credits after the ep title -- they weren't in all the eps anyway --- 11 ppl is just a bit much for opening credits for a show of this type - not only that - but it looks bad to go from one set of credits in the 1st season, to adding 15 more ppl for the 2nd, then taking most of those out for the 3rd -- makes the show look unstable --

25th October 2001, 12:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
{ACA} Spellcaster Aussie with Addiction! Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,201	Yeah they had way to many permanent cast, but I was sorry to see Angel go, didn't mind seeing Coop go, he annoyed me But you can see how they couldn't really cut it down much more....ok get rid of jack and jill, which they did, but other than that, they were all useful.... Oh the joys of being a producer, script writer Willz :blpaw: :blpaw:

25th October 2001, 03:10 PM	#19 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	well, yes, they were important, but not all of them were in EVERY episode -- so, what they should have done, instead, was do the basic cast: Robert Davi, Ally Walker, Julian McMahon, Peter Frechette (sp?), Jack, Caitlin Wachs, and the black guy w/ the bandana, and Grace --- that's 8 , maybe include Angel - 9 --> and then when they actually USED Frances or Jill THEN put them in the credits -- but, still, that's a lot of ppl -- they oversized the cast - it was really weird -- honestly, these are the ones who should be in the opening sequence: Bailey, Sam, Grace, George, John, bandana, Jack --> that's it; if Chloe is in an ep, great, put her in the 'after the subtitle' credits - same w/ Angel and Jill and Frances -- Pretender did it w/ Broots until the last season - he was in like every episode but his name wasn't in the opening sequence until season 4 - season 2 was just really crowded -- made you feel like you were standing in an 8x8 cell w/ about 40 other people --- almost claustrophobic ---

26th October 2001, 01:28 PM	#20 (permalink)
{ACA} Spellcaster Aussie with Addiction! Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,201	true, have the core with a couple of extras in the background like angel and chloe Now that could work really well Willz :blpaw: :blpaw:

26th October 2001, 03:33 PM	#21 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	did ya notice we can't seem to stick to talking about Jack? probably b/c we don't like him --- he was an annoying character - and i still think that the show should have focused on something other than Sam's obsession with Jack --

27th October 2001, 02:58 PM	#22 (permalink)
{ACA} Spellcaster Aussie with Addiction! Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,201	sam and jack's mutual obsession...... and i still think that the best thing about Jack is that he is no more! Although to say SOMETHING nice about the idiot, he did help the VCTF catch a couple of killers.......even if it was only so they'd get back to him > Willz :blpaw: :blpaw: yeah i did noticed that we couldn't stick to the topic......but hey he's such a nobody

27th October 2001, 07:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	yeah - Jack's a selfish little snot isn't he? hey - did ya notice that Jack's mother is Kai Winn from Star Trek: DS9????

28th October 2001, 07:00 AM	#24 (permalink)
tokyogirl krycek's love slave Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: TEXAS!!! Posts: 2,098	i'll tell you what my favorite ep with jack was: the ep where he died. not for the same reasons you guys might pick, but because it was so perfect. i mean, sam's been both chasing after and running from this guy for years, and she ends up owing him. he helps her daughter be able to forgive her for spending so much time at work trying to catch him. and chloe will forever remember him for that. i mean, when they find out he's been following her since they were children.....that kind of gave me chills. and then when she kills him-he dies on her husband's grave with a rose in his hand. 2 perfect! it was so poetic. i loved it.

29th October 2001, 04:15 PM	#26 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	good question Willow -- i dunno -- could have been that other guy - but could have been Jack too --- the 'early' stuff would probably have been that other guy - so, maybe Sam had 2 stalkers -- or Jack was planning something for a very long time - however, i'm not sure Jack would have been 'that' thorough - they never played up anything about him 'following' Sam when she was younger - just that he killed her husband X yrs before the beginning of the show and she'd been 'running' from him ever since ---

29th October 2001, 05:49 PM	#27 (permalink)
tokyogirl krycek's love slave Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: TEXAS!!! Posts: 2,098	yes they did. maybe not actually following her since they were kids, but the murders all had a connection to her. even towards the beginning of the show they found out that one of the people killed before her husband used to run their bookmobile when they were kids. later they found out that another one killed before her husband had some kind of connection, and they implied that all of them probably did. they were in the same sunday school class-he's been obsessed with her for a long time. their sunday school teacher said that he had a crush on her way back then.

29th October 2001, 07:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	yeah, but was that Jack or the other guy? i thought they discovered that the 'sunday school' crush kid was someone else? they just thought it was Jack for a while -- and, i understand that the murders, even at the beginning of the 'show', were related to Sam in some way, but if you remember the beginning, Bailey brings her 'back' to the VCTF - she had been there, then left -- and there were like 8 original kills before Sam came back - one of which was her husband -- and remember that Jack has an extensive education, mostly in medicine and anatomy, but he knows a great deal about computers too, and many other things, so he couldn't have spent all of his time chasing/stalking Sam, or he wouldn't be the 'professional' murderer that he is (not pro as in getting paid, but in knowing exactly what he's doing) -- and, with the expertise in 'murder' he has, he has probably been doing that for quite some time - you can't plan and go out and do it 'perfectly' the first time - he would have had to practice (murder, i suppose, is a craft like anything else, you have to practice to be good at it) -- so there's much more to Jack than we got from the show (and remember, i haven't seen all of season 3, nor most of season 4) -- we only have what Sam comes up w/ as her 'profile' on Jack -- but i don't recall her going into details about his childhood - (and i could have missed them)

2nd November 2001, 11:46 AM	#29 (permalink)
{ACA} Spellcaster Aussie with Addiction! Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,201	sorry tokyogirl, i gotta agree with h2 here, the preschool thing was the other guy.....remember they confronted him at his place when they caught up to him....he had stollen that baby to play out his fantasy of it being his and Sam's kid, but it was all an illusion. He was obsessed, but not jack. Also i thought bailey brought sam into the case after about 8 of jack's murders, wasn't she not long out of the acadamey? jack only started leaving messages aimed at sam after a couple of murders that sam had been working with the team on it... he only started showing remorse for the killings after she called him a cold blooded murder....or something to that effect....in the papers. his next victim was covered up. Willz :blpaw: :blpaw:

2nd November 2001, 02:01 PM	#30 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	you could be right, Willz, my memory's really foggy on the first few eps of the series (keep missing those too!) -- Jack's first murders may not have been directed at Sam or related to her - except for the death of her husband -- so - i'm not 100% sure on the early timeline -- but, a lot of that stuff from late season 2/early season 3 - or whenever it is that Jack is pretending to be some cop out in the boonies and is leading the VCTF around by a leash -- it gets really weird and really confusing -- so - i'm waiting for CBS to get around to airing those eps again - (and hoping my mom elects to get Direct TV so i can have Court TV again! and Showtime!! WOOHOO!)