Apophis in S5 (spoilers) - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

kelsi · 22nd September 2001, 06:11 AM

OK, after watching Threshold the other night, I was fascinated by Apophis' costume, mythology wise. What was his costume supposed to represent? It seemed to have feathers on or something... what's that got to do with the Egyptian snake god Apophis? And what was up with the scarab beetles on his breastplate thingy? Any ideas on what that's supposed to represent?

HeyLynny · 23rd September 2001, 09:43 PM

Good question.....I have absolutely no idea. I can't wait to hear what everyone else has to say...I'm sure someone out there has the answer.

kelsi · 4th October 2001, 07:36 AM

I noticed that in CoTG, he's wearing snakeskin, which is quite apropriate

imported_storm · 30th December 2001, 01:08 AM

Not much activity in this forum lately( grr... those writers... give us more cultures...grrr etc).

This is an interestin question kelsi.
Without re-watchin the episode, I know that the link between serpent and bird exists in the creation myth of the Kiche Indians of Guatemala. ( i got this from a book by Lewis Spence(no infringement intended)). He says that in the Popol Vuh, Xpiyacoc and Xmucane are" the ancient serpents covered in green feathers."
And for some reason, this idea is stuck in my head that there was somethin similar in Egypt.
Mabey im gettin confused with the frogs and serpents in the Hermopolian Ogdoad. (but im sure i saw somethin...)

Anyway, im startin to confuse myself, mabey its cos birds and snakes both come from eggs(!), i dunno.

my brain is gettin tired, im gonna go think about this.(itll probably keep me awake!)

ST:rain:RM

kelsi · 30th December 2001, 12:00 PM

I think I know who you're talking about storm; the feathered serpent of something? Quetzalcoatl? Or am I on a totally different wavelength?

imported_storm · 4th January 2002, 07:02 PM

Yeah, thats it! The same book also says that birds and serpents come together in Ra, as well as Quetzalcoatal. Which is interesting because they (Ra and Apoohis) were supposed to be enemies, but doesnt really answer you question in any way! Sorry.
(btw, how is Quetzalcoatal pronounced?)

ST:rain:RM

kelsi · 4th January 2002, 09:01 PM

Exactly as you say it. Quet (kwet) zal (sall) co (ko) at (at) l (like the ll in full). You sound every letter; quite a mouthful, just like most other Aztec gods!

Hungry · 12th January 2002, 01:39 AM

Scarab bettles were featured in the the movie "the mummy" as well - does neone know wot them symbolised in the Egyptian culture ?

imported_storm · 12th January 2002, 08:15 PM

I think they were asociated with the god Ra, because they are a type of dung beetle, and symbolised the movement of the sun across the sky.

Dendarah · 13th January 2002, 03:38 AM

The feathered serpant comes from the nocturnal voyage of Ra, but it depends on which kingdom you research. In some of the myths during the older kingdom the serpant is feathered while in later periods it is a plain serpant without its feathers, but the feathered serpant is usually dipicted as a barque of some kind in Egyptian Mythology ususally riden by Ra or Horus (or major deity).

Hungry · 15th January 2002, 08:16 AM

ah ...........:alienooh:

kelsi · 27th January 2002, 02:59 PM

But whats the symbology of the feathers? I thought that was only an Aztec thing?

Dendarah · 28th January 2002, 09:30 PM

Nope, most people don't know the feather thing because it comes in the Old Kingdom, which unfortunately, other then the pyramids many look over. The barque which Ra flys over the sky during the day as the sun uses these feathered serpants (hence the wings) and when he journey's down in the dark after life he uses the barque as well to be re-born the next day. It is an odd assortment serpants and feathers but it is documented in very old scrolls, with the story of Ra and his daily journey through the sky.:rolly2:

kelsi · 28th January 2002, 10:57 PM

Do you know where any textual refernces are? Like, in the Book fo the Dead, or something?

Dendarah · 9th February 2002, 06:03 PM

Nope, not too much about the barque with the feathered serpant is recorded because it was in such an early period of Egyptian myth only a few reliefs are able too be seen with this picture but it came out of the creation myth of Ra traveling over the sky as the sun and traveling into the underworld. As time goes on the serpant loses its importance especially when Aphophis is concerned. In the Book of the Earth God, Book of the two ways, Book of the Gate, and Book of the Caverns the feathered serpant is taken away from the barque because know when Ra is in Amduat (when he is in the underworld for twelve hours/ twelve realm) he is constanlty attacked by Apophis, so this myth continued on too the latest dynasty. But a featherd serpant is sometimes shown being riden by Horus, I've only seen a couple of these reliefs on very remote temples such as Badari, and Hamamiyeh which are really close to each other. The middle and new dynasty take on this myth can be seen on papyrus, most are in the Cario museum, the most well known is from 900Bc, during the Twenty first dynasty. Unfortunately as Dynasties changed and Kingdoms left behind their own beliefs everything changed to suit the needs of the pharoahs and people, so that's why the feathered serpant was lost first it was a sign of strength, then danger then evil when it concerned Apophis. Very few snakes have such pull pretty much the asp and the cobra are respected as a sign of strength and the snakes of Ra (cobras, asps protecters of the pharoah).

22nd September 2001, 06:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
kelsi Expert Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sitting in front of my computer, at home, on Chulak. Posts: 1,411	Apophis in S5 (spoilers) OK, after watching Threshold the other night, I was fascinated by Apophis' costume, mythology wise. What was his costume supposed to represent? It seemed to have feathers on or something... what's that got to do with the Egyptian snake god Apophis? And what was up with the scarab beetles on his breastplate thingy? Any ideas on what that's supposed to represent?

23rd September 2001, 09:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
HeyLynny Explorer Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: New York Posts: 621	I dunno? Good question.....I have absolutely no idea. I can't wait to hear what everyone else has to say...I'm sure someone out there has the answer.

30th December 2001, 01:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
imported_storm Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Scotland Posts: 43	Hey! Not much activity in this forum lately( grr... those writers... give us more cultures...grrr etc). This is an interestin question kelsi. Without re-watchin the episode, I know that the link between serpent and bird exists in the creation myth of the Kiche Indians of Guatemala. ( i got this from a book by Lewis Spence(no infringement intended)). He says that in the Popol Vuh, Xpiyacoc and Xmucane are" the ancient serpents covered in green feathers." And for some reason, this idea is stuck in my head that there was somethin similar in Egypt. Mabey im gettin confused with the frogs and serpents in the Hermopolian Ogdoad. (but im sure i saw somethin...) Anyway, im startin to confuse myself, mabey its cos birds and snakes both come from eggs(!), i dunno. my brain is gettin tired, im gonna go think about this.(itll probably keep me awake!) ST:rain:RM

4th January 2002, 09:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
kelsi Expert Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sitting in front of my computer, at home, on Chulak. Posts: 1,411	How it's pronounced... Exactly as you say it. Quet (kwet) zal (sall) co (ko) at (at) l (like the ll in full). You sound every letter; quite a mouthful, just like most other Aztec gods!

4th October 2001, 07:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
kelsi Expert Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sitting in front of my computer, at home, on Chulak. Posts: 1,411	I noticed that in CoTG, he's wearing snakeskin, which is quite apropriate

30th December 2001, 12:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
kelsi Expert Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sitting in front of my computer, at home, on Chulak. Posts: 1,411	I think I know who you're talking about storm; the feathered serpent of something? Quetzalcoatl? Or am I on a totally different wavelength?

4th January 2002, 07:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
imported_storm Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Scotland Posts: 43	Yeah, thats it! The same book also says that birds and serpents come together in Ra, as well as Quetzalcoatal. Which is interesting because they (Ra and Apoohis) were supposed to be enemies, but doesnt really answer you question in any way! Sorry. (btw, how is Quetzalcoatal pronounced?) ST:rain:RM

12th January 2002, 01:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Hungry Tau'ri Death Glider Pilot Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 547	Scarab bettles were featured in the the movie "the mummy" as well - does neone know wot them symbolised in the Egyptian culture ?

12th January 2002, 08:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
imported_storm Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Scotland Posts: 43	I think they were asociated with the god Ra, because they are a type of dung beetle, and symbolised the movement of the sun across the sky.

13th January 2002, 03:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Dendarah QWERTY Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 13	The feathered serpant comes from the nocturnal voyage of Ra, but it depends on which kingdom you research. In some of the myths during the older kingdom the serpant is feathered while in later periods it is a plain serpant without its feathers, but the feathered serpant is usually dipicted as a barque of some kind in Egyptian Mythology ususally riden by Ra or Horus (or major deity).

15th January 2002, 08:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
Hungry Tau'ri Death Glider Pilot Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 547	ah ...........:alienooh:

27th January 2002, 02:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
kelsi Expert Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sitting in front of my computer, at home, on Chulak. Posts: 1,411	But whats the symbology of the feathers? I thought that was only an Aztec thing?

28th January 2002, 09:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dendarah QWERTY Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 13	Nope, most people don't know the feather thing because it comes in the Old Kingdom, which unfortunately, other then the pyramids many look over. The barque which Ra flys over the sky during the day as the sun uses these feathered serpants (hence the wings) and when he journey's down in the dark after life he uses the barque as well to be re-born the next day. It is an odd assortment serpants and feathers but it is documented in very old scrolls, with the story of Ra and his daily journey through the sky.:rolly2:

28th January 2002, 10:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
kelsi Expert Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sitting in front of my computer, at home, on Chulak. Posts: 1,411	Do you know where any textual refernces are? Like, in the Book fo the Dead, or something?

9th February 2002, 06:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Dendarah QWERTY Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 13	Nope, not too much about the barque with the feathered serpant is recorded because it was in such an early period of Egyptian myth only a few reliefs are able too be seen with this picture but it came out of the creation myth of Ra traveling over the sky as the sun and traveling into the underworld. As time goes on the serpant loses its importance especially when Aphophis is concerned. In the Book of the Earth God, Book of the two ways, Book of the Gate, and Book of the Caverns the feathered serpant is taken away from the barque because know when Ra is in Amduat (when he is in the underworld for twelve hours/ twelve realm) he is constanlty attacked by Apophis, so this myth continued on too the latest dynasty. But a featherd serpant is sometimes shown being riden by Horus, I've only seen a couple of these reliefs on very remote temples such as Badari, and Hamamiyeh which are really close to each other. The middle and new dynasty take on this myth can be seen on papyrus, most are in the Cario museum, the most well known is from 900Bc, during the Twenty first dynasty. Unfortunately as Dynasties changed and Kingdoms left behind their own beliefs everything changed to suit the needs of the pharoahs and people, so that's why the feathered serpant was lost first it was a sign of strength, then danger then evil when it concerned Apophis. Very few snakes have such pull pretty much the asp and the cobra are respected as a sign of strength and the snakes of Ra (cobras, asps protecters of the pharoah).