3.16: Doppelgangland - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

markpud · 19th September 2001, 03:11 PM

When Anyanka enlists an unwitting Willow to help create a temporal fold, the outcome brings a surprise for the scooby gang.

Varna · 27th October 2001, 02:01 PM

Anya points out to the vamps that Willow (disguised as her vampire self) is human, then urges that Willow be killed.

Later, Willow has cause to be jealous of Anya when Anya's relationship develops with Xander. Later still, the two women try to work out their issues, and get on better.

But no one mentions this episode, or Anya's creepiness in it. If I were Willow, it would surely be an issue for me!

markpud · 31st October 2001, 12:03 AM

at this stage Anya was very much still wanting to get back to being a vengenace demon, and has little or no regard for human life. Its only later, when she accepts that shes human, she pursues a relationship with Xander. I guess WIllow would have had a few words on the subject though...

Varna · 10th November 2001, 10:36 PM

Time is of the essence. There's a bunch of vamps about to eat a Bronze full of people. But Giles and Co spend time dressing vampire Willow - not just slinging her in a cell with enough clothes for prime-time TV, but putting her stockings on very neatly.

As Buffy said once, "Reality check, guys!"

The scene where Cordelia gets herself a hot drink and sits down to nag at (vampire) Willow is one of those that starts off amusing, and gets more quietly hilarious every time you watch it.

markpud · 3rd December 2001, 11:06 PM

point 1, the clothes - well we just have to cut a little "prime-time" slack here, and I guess that follows int opoint 2 as I doubt Cordy would have sat down for a chat with a (semi) naked Willow

MythingLink · 5th February 2002, 12:01 PM

Actually in an episode I liked that whole changing clothes thing kind of bothered me.

You've got the gang going to the Bronze to stop the vamps from dinner and Willow sticking around behind because she thinks of something. Then Bad Willow shows up, Good Willow knocks her out with a tranq, and then there's the rest of the gang again back in the library. What happened to them going to the Bronze?

Other than that, I really like the way AH was able to play both bad and good together and make it really convincing that they were two different personalities.

Noticed that a line was cut (or it's my imagination). I remember the first time I watched it when Willow makes the comment about Bad Willow being gay, Buffy says something about vamps not taking on traits from the pre-vamp person and Angel butts in with a comment that actually they do -- or something like that. It wasn't in last night's FX version but was in there the first time they aired it. Unless I dreamed the whole thing.

Cheers,

obcooke · 5th February 2002, 02:27 PM

[MythingLink: Unless I dreamed the whole thing.]

Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.

Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.

Angel: Well, actually... eh, That's a good point.

-----------------

You ain't dreaming MythingLink. It's a shame that they cut that out of the syndicated version that you saw, since it's an important foreshadowing of Willow's future.

Highlander II · 1st May 2002, 12:38 AM

yeah - i think i saw this on Fox, and the line was there - but FX cut it -- b/c i remember Angel's line ---

stupid syndication --

i wanna know why both Willow's were able to exist in the same dimension at the same time w/ no 'side effects' - most sci-fi shows have the rule, that if 2 versions of a person are in the same dimension/reality - then if they happen to touch - both will cease to exist -- but - Joss coulda put his own spin on it to avoid the technobabble ---

obcooke · 7th September 2002, 06:23 PM

Okay, Video/DVD check...

In one of the scenes where Willow is pretending to be Vamp Willow at the Bronze, she walks around the bar stalling for time and she brushes a woman's hair, but her hand gets caught in the strands.

WAS THAT TARA?????

It's a short scene and the woman never looks up, she just keeps very still as if terrified.

The instant I saw her, I thought, THAT"S TARA!!! But I couldn't be entirely sure. I need to find my copy of this episode, but my collection is a little disorganized.

In the meantime, what does everyone else think?

Highlander II · 7th September 2002, 10:20 PM

Haven't watched this episode in a while - but, Fox is airing it tomorrow - so, if I can grab a tv around 1800, I'll take a look - (and maybe get to hear Angel's line that's missing from the FX version) --

Interesting observation and now you've got me wanting to find out for sure ------

obcooke · 8th September 2002, 01:13 AM

[Highlander II: ...Fox is airing it tomorrow... and maybe get to hear Angel's line that's missing from the FX version]

Sorry, H2, but I think the syndicated versions are all the same. I saw this one repeated this afternoon on a FOX station, but the line was missing.

Shaun · 8th September 2002, 03:07 AM

I'll check my DVD later today, thats the episode I'm up to anyway (did mean to watch it last night but too tired). But from memory, I really don't think that it was Tara.

Shaun · 8th September 2002, 03:37 AM

I just checked and the hairs similar but the face is different... I think, I'm not entirely sure it isn't Tara.
Heres a screen shot of the woman in question.

obcooke · 8th September 2002, 10:29 AM

Boy, it sure does look like her, but with the bad lighting and out-of-focus partial view of her face, its tough to be sure.

The hair, body-type and general features look similar, but you're right, Shuan, I tend to doubt that it is her. And it would be strange that she could make this appearance and no one would mention it again later. It would be the kind of trivia that someone would call attention to.

But on the other hand, Joss does love to bring back good actors that he's worked with before and it would be a great bit of foreshadowing - not only does Willow's first get some vague hints that she might be gay in this episode, but she accidentally becomes "attached" to Tara's hair.

Of course, this is before Seth decides to leave and Joss goes looking for another lover for Willow.

Maybe I just want it to be her so bad that my eyes are playing tricks on me, but I still have a hard time saying it isn't her.

Asmiley · 20th September 2004, 03:34 PM

No I don't think so. I just saw the eppy and it wasn't Tara.

heh this is one of my fave eppy's! Seriously I'm having trouble deciding whether I like this or the wish more. I like seeing evil Vamp Willow. too bad she had to die twice. I think AH does an awesome job playing bad.
later in the later season...which I will not get into here... I don't feel the same way. It's scarier somehow.

ANd yes the gay reference is really something I don't remember seeing. It gets cut out? well that's rotten of them. it foreshadows so much. I also think you're right H2 that the line was in it when it originally aired.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh watching the season three on DVD right now and lovin it.

19th September 2001, 03:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	3.16 : Doppelgangland When Anyanka enlists an unwitting Willow to help create a temporal fold, the outcome brings a surprise for the scooby gang.

27th October 2001, 02:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
Varna Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: England Posts: 41	Anya slays Willow Anya points out to the vamps that Willow (disguised as her vampire self) is human, then urges that Willow be killed. Later, Willow has cause to be jealous of Anya when Anya's relationship develops with Xander. Later still, the two women try to work out their issues, and get on better. But no one mentions this episode, or Anya's creepiness in it. If I were Willow, it would surely be an issue for me!

8th September 2002, 03:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
Shaun R.I.P. Ashes Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 1,798	I just checked and the hairs similar but the face is different... I think, I'm not entirely sure it isn't Tara. Heres a screen shot of the woman in question. Attached Images

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31st October 2001, 12:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	at this stage Anya was very much still wanting to get back to being a vengenace demon, and has little or no regard for human life. Its only later, when she accepts that shes human, she pursues a relationship with Xander. I guess WIllow would have had a few words on the subject though...

10th November 2001, 10:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Varna Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: England Posts: 41	Time is of the essence. There's a bunch of vamps about to eat a Bronze full of people. But Giles and Co spend time dressing vampire Willow - not just slinging her in a cell with enough clothes for prime-time TV, but putting her stockings on very neatly. As Buffy said once, "Reality check, guys!" The scene where Cordelia gets herself a hot drink and sits down to nag at (vampire) Willow is one of those that starts off amusing, and gets more quietly hilarious every time you watch it.

3rd December 2001, 11:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	point 1, the clothes - well we just have to cut a little "prime-time" slack here, and I guess that follows int opoint 2 as I doubt Cordy would have sat down for a chat with a (semi) naked Willow

5th February 2002, 12:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
MythingLink First Prime of ASciFi Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,798	Actually in an episode I liked that whole changing clothes thing kind of bothered me. You've got the gang going to the Bronze to stop the vamps from dinner and Willow sticking around behind because she thinks of something. Then Bad Willow shows up, Good Willow knocks her out with a tranq, and then there's the rest of the gang again back in the library. What happened to them going to the Bronze? Other than that, I really like the way AH was able to play both bad and good together and make it really convincing that they were two different personalities. Noticed that a line was cut (or it's my imagination). I remember the first time I watched it when Willow makes the comment about Bad Willow being gay, Buffy says something about vamps not taking on traits from the pre-vamp person and Angel butts in with a comment that actually they do -- or something like that. It wasn't in last night's FX version but was in there the first time they aired it. Unless I dreamed the whole thing. Cheers,

5th February 2002, 02:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	[MythingLink: Unless I dreamed the whole thing.] Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay. Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was. Angel: Well, actually... eh, That's a good point. ----------------- You ain't dreaming MythingLink. It's a shame that they cut that out of the syndicated version that you saw, since it's an important foreshadowing of Willow's future.

1st May 2002, 12:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	yeah - i think i saw this on Fox, and the line was there - but FX cut it -- b/c i remember Angel's line --- stupid syndication -- i wanna know why both Willow's were able to exist in the same dimension at the same time w/ no 'side effects' - most sci-fi shows have the rule, that if 2 versions of a person are in the same dimension/reality - then if they happen to touch - both will cease to exist -- but - Joss coulda put his own spin on it to avoid the technobabble ---

7th September 2002, 06:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	Okay, Video/DVD check... In one of the scenes where Willow is pretending to be Vamp Willow at the Bronze, she walks around the bar stalling for time and she brushes a woman's hair, but her hand gets caught in the strands. WAS THAT TARA????? It's a short scene and the woman never looks up, she just keeps very still as if terrified. The instant I saw her, I thought, THAT"S TARA!!! But I couldn't be entirely sure. I need to find my copy of this episode, but my collection is a little disorganized. In the meantime, what does everyone else think?

7th September 2002, 10:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Haven't watched this episode in a while - but, Fox is airing it tomorrow - so, if I can grab a tv around 1800, I'll take a look - (and maybe get to hear Angel's line that's missing from the FX version) -- Interesting observation and now you've got me wanting to find out for sure ------

8th September 2002, 01:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	[Highlander II: ...Fox is airing it tomorrow... and maybe get to hear Angel's line that's missing from the FX version] Sorry, H2, but I think the syndicated versions are all the same. I saw this one repeated this afternoon on a FOX station, but the line was missing.

8th September 2002, 03:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
Shaun R.I.P. Ashes Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 1,798	I'll check my DVD later today, thats the episode I'm up to anyway (did mean to watch it last night but too tired). But from memory, I really don't think that it was Tara.

8th September 2002, 10:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	Boy, it sure does look like her, but with the bad lighting and out-of-focus partial view of her face, its tough to be sure. The hair, body-type and general features look similar, but you're right, Shuan, I tend to doubt that it is her. And it would be strange that she could make this appearance and no one would mention it again later. It would be the kind of trivia that someone would call attention to. But on the other hand, Joss does love to bring back good actors that he's worked with before and it would be a great bit of foreshadowing - not only does Willow's first get some vague hints that she might be gay in this episode, but she accidentally becomes "attached" to Tara's hair. Of course, this is before Seth decides to leave and Joss goes looking for another lover for Willow. Maybe I just want it to be her so bad that my eyes are playing tricks on me, but I still have a hard time saying it isn't her.

20th September 2004, 03:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
Asmiley lost in Time Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,373	No I don't think so. I just saw the eppy and it wasn't Tara. heh this is one of my fave eppy's! Seriously I'm having trouble deciding whether I like this or the wish more. I like seeing evil Vamp Willow. too bad she had to die twice. I think AH does an awesome job playing bad. later in the later season...which I will not get into here... I don't feel the same way. It's scarier somehow. ANd yes the gay reference is really something I don't remember seeing. It gets cut out? well that's rotten of them. it foreshadows so much. I also think you're right H2 that the line was in it when it originally aired. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ heh watching the season three on DVD right now and lovin it.