3.12: Helpless - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

markpud · 19th September 2001, 03:00 PM

As Buffy approaches her 18th Birthday, she experiences the loss of her slayer-strength.

Highlander II · 1st February 2002, 02:43 AM

single-handedly - one of the most boring eps of Buffy -- (along w/ The Zeppo) -- ack! b/c of the way FX skipped that one ep in season 2 -- the one where Xander casts a love spell, or whatever - all the other eps are off - so, 2 boring ones in the same day -- gah!

anyway -- there were some good parts - but mostly - not - the whole thing didn't really make a lot of sense --- 'take away the slayer's powers for 48 hrs and see if she can kill this big bad vamp' -- huh??

btw - who wrote this ep? b/c somehow i don't think that Buffy would not want Angel - or someone - to walk her home if she knew her 'power' was gone -- i just think that might be a smidge out of character -- yeah - i know she doesn't want to get too close to Angel - but i think she'd rather be safe going home---

Analise · 2nd February 2002, 12:32 AM

Well the walking home thing might be simply because she's used to being able to take care of herself. Even though she knows her power is gone, she still is of the mindset that "I can take care of myself".

As far as liking the ep....I liked the crazy vamp that needed the pills and the way she ended up killing him.

That was about it.

And yeah, stupid test.

Highlander II · 2nd February 2002, 12:56 AM

well - i also wonder about Angel - even tho Buffy probably told him she'd be fine - why didn't he follow her? (other than it didn't fit the storyline) -- he's somewhat protective - i'd figure he'd be pretty concerned for her, considering she didn't have her power

oh - and the Holy Water bit -- excellent! (btw- that's the only part of this ep i liked)

oh -- that and Dominic Keating was in this one -- (he was Blair - the guy who was turned by the crazy guy) -- he's Malcolm Reed on Enterprise -----

Highlander II · 4th February 2002, 04:44 AM

one more tidbit --

the guy who played Krelik (the crazy vamp) - he was on MacGyver (ep 'Pirates'), and The Pretender (ep "Bank"), and JAG (ep "Body Talk") --

he's been in other stuff too - but i'm only listing the ones i remember/recognize him from -- his name's Jeff Kober

markpud · 12th March 2002, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlander II
oh -- that and Dominic Keating was in this one -- (he was Blair - the guy who was turned by the crazy guy) -- he's Malcolm Reed on Enterprise -----

of course!! Not that I'd seen Enterprise when I last watched this episode...

Don't be too harsh on this eppy, it was a good one in several ways. We get Giles betraying Buffy, the dark side of the COuncil and Buffy sans powers and still holding her own. All interesting aspects...

Highlander II · 12th March 2002, 11:18 PM

sorry, markpud, just can't like this episode -- too many things that didn't make sense to me --

and yes - i'm terribly over-analytical about stuff like that, but it's just the way i am ---

just too many things that seemed 'out of character' or 'unexplained' to me

Shaun · 13th June 2002, 06:31 AM

Another episode I liked. The test made sense to me. The council tests the slayer by taking away her powers and sees if she can defeat a vampire with cunning and ingenuity. If she fails, dead slayer, so another one is called. A way to ensure that they have a good slayer. Ofcourse that wouldn't work for Buffy dieing but its traditional so there is no way in hell they can change it

(

not at episode, just watchers council.)

Gile's betraying Buffy and then helping her was interesting and a nice bit of character development. And Buffy's line about seeing what there is and not being able to go on ignoring it was a classic (well not quite but memorable nonetheless.)

little smaug · 30th March 2004, 07:22 PM

Seeing as I got the season 3.2 boxset recently, and I never commented on these eps, I though I'd come and do it now.

Well, people seem to have mixed opinions about this episode. It's one of those eps where I really like bits of it, and hate other bits.

Bits I liked:
1) Kralik - I thought he was a great vampire. Crazy vampires are always interesting, and he was a different kind of crazy to Drusilla. And he was funny.

2) Giles' betrayal of Buffy. It really added depth to his character. And the end scene, where he gets fired, is so sad. When Buffy is trying to clean her cut, and he just goes and takes the cloth from her and does it, it always brings a tear to my eye.
3) Giles getting fired. Don't get me wrong, I was outraged that they would do such a thing. But it did put an interesting spin on things, introducing a new watcher into the mix.
4) How Buffy killed the vamp with holy water - very cool.

5) Quentin. He is one of those guys you really want to throttle, which in my opinion, makes him a great character.

Ok, and bits I didn't like:
1) The test. I just don't think it's plausible. If a slayer isn't efficient enough, then she'll get killed on patrol, so what's the point of having a test? And it's not very likely that a slayer would lose her powers naturally, but even if she did, it would be the same result.
2) The "Red Riding Hood" theme. A couple of references, fair enough. But it kind of felt like they were shoving it down our throats. And after "Gingerbread", it's just too much fairy-tale stuff all at once.
3) There seemed to be a lot of goofs in this episode, and that annoys me. Like, Buffy struggled to pick up her weapons bag, yet she managed to push a large bookcase full of heavy books with no trouble? And when did she have time to switch the water for holy water? And why didn't Kralik realise that it was holy water until after he'd drunk it? Wouldn't it have burned his mouth and throat?

So, over all, not such a great episode. And no particularly memorable quotes. Though seeing Dominic Keating as a vamp was kinda cool!

Highlander II · 31st March 2004, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by markpud
Don't be too harsh on this eppy, it was a good one in several ways. We get Giles betraying Buffy, the dark side of the COuncil and Buffy sans powers and still holding her own. All interesting aspects...

Okay - just reading over this again - and gonna have to say - I really have to be harsh on this episode, b/c for what it was trying to achieve, we got a really bad story -- (the only good to come out of this is a line in AtS S4) --

This episode seems to serve the purpose of 'making Buffy look good' - okay, if we have to have stupid episodes like this to make her look good - she's not that deep / good a character.

There are better ways to show the 'dark side' of the Council - if the guys are 'bad' anyway - find something better than this ridiculous test that makes absolutely no sense anyway.

And the holy water thing, little smaug, yeah - I wondered about that too - I mean, I like that it took ingenuity to do that, but most vamps recognize holy water pretty quick... sometimes, apparently, dramatic effect takes precedence...

19th September 2001, 03:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	3.12 : Helpless As Buffy approaches her 18th Birthday, she experiences the loss of her slayer-strength.

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1st February 2002, 02:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	single-handedly - one of the most boring eps of Buffy -- (along w/ The Zeppo) -- ack! b/c of the way FX skipped that one ep in season 2 -- the one where Xander casts a love spell, or whatever - all the other eps are off - so, 2 boring ones in the same day -- gah! anyway -- there were some good parts - but mostly - not - the whole thing didn't really make a lot of sense --- 'take away the slayer's powers for 48 hrs and see if she can kill this big bad vamp' -- huh?? btw - who wrote this ep? b/c somehow i don't think that Buffy would not want Angel - or someone - to walk her home if she knew her 'power' was gone -- i just think that might be a smidge out of character -- yeah - i know she doesn't want to get too close to Angel - but i think she'd rather be safe going home---

2nd February 2002, 12:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Analise Blondishness Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 590	Well the walking home thing might be simply because she's used to being able to take care of herself. Even though she knows her power is gone, she still is of the mindset that "I can take care of myself". As far as liking the ep....I liked the crazy vamp that needed the pills and the way she ended up killing him. That was about it. And yeah, stupid test.

2nd February 2002, 12:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	well - i also wonder about Angel - even tho Buffy probably told him she'd be fine - why didn't he follow her? (other than it didn't fit the storyline) -- he's somewhat protective - i'd figure he'd be pretty concerned for her, considering she didn't have her power oh - and the Holy Water bit -- excellent! (btw- that's the only part of this ep i liked) oh -- that and Dominic Keating was in this one -- (he was Blair - the guy who was turned by the crazy guy) -- he's Malcolm Reed on Enterprise -----

4th February 2002, 04:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	one more tidbit -- the guy who played Krelik (the crazy vamp) - he was on MacGyver (ep 'Pirates'), and The Pretender (ep "Bank"), and JAG (ep "Body Talk") -- he's been in other stuff too - but i'm only listing the ones i remember/recognize him from -- his name's Jeff Kober

12th March 2002, 11:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	sorry, markpud, just can't like this episode -- too many things that didn't make sense to me -- and yes - i'm terribly over-analytical about stuff like that, but it's just the way i am --- just too many things that seemed 'out of character' or 'unexplained' to me

13th June 2002, 06:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
Shaun R.I.P. Ashes Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 1,798	Another episode I liked. The test made sense to me. The council tests the slayer by taking away her powers and sees if she can defeat a vampire with cunning and ingenuity. If she fails, dead slayer, so another one is called. A way to ensure that they have a good slayer. Ofcourse that wouldn't work for Buffy dieing but its traditional so there is no way in hell they can change it ( not at episode, just watchers council.) Gile's betraying Buffy and then helping her was interesting and a nice bit of character development. And Buffy's line about seeing what there is and not being able to go on ignoring it was a classic (well not quite but memorable nonetheless.)

30th March 2004, 07:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	Seeing as I got the season 3.2 boxset recently, and I never commented on these eps, I though I'd come and do it now. Well, people seem to have mixed opinions about this episode. It's one of those eps where I really like bits of it, and hate other bits. Bits I liked: 1) Kralik - I thought he was a great vampire. Crazy vampires are always interesting, and he was a different kind of crazy to Drusilla. And he was funny. 2) Giles' betrayal of Buffy. It really added depth to his character. And the end scene, where he gets fired, is so sad. When Buffy is trying to clean her cut, and he just goes and takes the cloth from her and does it, it always brings a tear to my eye. 3) Giles getting fired. Don't get me wrong, I was outraged that they would do such a thing. But it did put an interesting spin on things, introducing a new watcher into the mix. 4) How Buffy killed the vamp with holy water - very cool. 5) Quentin. He is one of those guys you really want to throttle, which in my opinion, makes him a great character. Ok, and bits I didn't like: 1) The test. I just don't think it's plausible. If a slayer isn't efficient enough, then she'll get killed on patrol, so what's the point of having a test? And it's not very likely that a slayer would lose her powers naturally, but even if she did, it would be the same result. 2) The "Red Riding Hood" theme. A couple of references, fair enough. But it kind of felt like they were shoving it down our throats. And after "Gingerbread", it's just too much fairy-tale stuff all at once. 3) There seemed to be a lot of goofs in this episode, and that annoys me. Like, Buffy struggled to pick up her weapons bag, yet she managed to push a large bookcase full of heavy books with no trouble? And when did she have time to switch the water for holy water? And why didn't Kralik realise that it was holy water until after he'd drunk it? Wouldn't it have burned his mouth and throat? So, over all, not such a great episode. And no particularly memorable quotes. Though seeing Dominic Keating as a vamp was kinda cool!