The first SF Story?

[knivesout]

SF critic Cheryl Morgan has an interesting article on the origins of SF on the Strange Horizons site: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...09/myths.shtml

It runs through the usual suspects (Shelley, Verne, Poe), less commonly cited possibilities such as the Roman writer Lucian or the writer ofthe Arabian Nights, and suggests that 'one's choice of the first SF work has little to do with literary theory. It is much more a question of mythology.'

[dwndrgn]

Very interesting article. This isn't something that's been keeping me awake at night but it is interesting to note what others are thinking.

[littlemissattitude]

Interesting. Especially the implication that some of the suggestions for earliest SF story, notably the case Aldiss makes for Shelley's "Frankenstein" (and I've read "Trillion Year Spree", by the way; it's an interesting book) are at least partially nationalistic in nature. I've most consistently heard the idea that at least American SF, as well as the detective story, originated with Poe.

I've even seen it suggested, though I can't remember where it was or who made the suggestion, that "Gilgamesh" is the first SF story. Whoever it was, they certainly don't share Gernsback's definition of science fiction.

[zorka]

Like dwndrgn I'm not inclined to lose sleep over this. However, I do think if one is going to get into a discussion such as this, one needs to jump into one of a number of camps on howt exactly Science Fiction should be defined. The article's author touches on this very incidentally. But there are a number of camps including Aldiss' who adheres to the concept that science is merely a reference point in the genre. Others such as Sam Moskowitz see it as a branch of fantasy and Reginald Bretnor calls it fiction based upon rational speculation.

So depending on how you first define it brings one closer to where Science Fiction began. I tend to steer away from Gernsback as the "father" of science fiction when I read stories such as H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds and The Time Machine which I find to fit into my definition of science fiction. I do think the story needs to have a reasonably rational use of science to explain some of the actions of the plot or characters. This would rule out some of the earliest so-called science fiction such as Murtagh McDermot's "A Trip to the Moon" which involves a character thrust into space circling the earth. To get out of orbit the space person grabs a cloud and is thrust toward the moon. But include the likes of Mary Shelley's Dr. Frankenstein sewing together body parts and using high doses of electricity to start the heart of the "monster." It's just that this science idea is a means to jump start the rest of the story of a displaced person who doesn't fit into society's mold. The science doesn't really drive the plot. This probably even applies to H.G. Wells as well.

So one could continue to argue and argue but the best that might happen is that we agree to disagree. But it certainly could be fun to do so!

[knivesout]

Indeed!


Personally I'd also exclude earlier 'wonder tales' because they offer no attempt to make these feats seem believable. Scientific extrapolation need not be the driving force of an SF story - authors like Phillip K Dick and Ursula le Guin proved that some time ago - what's important is a sense that what is being imagined is at least plausible given what we know of science. Certain stories by Jules Verne, Mary Shelley, HG Wells and Edgar Poe all fall into the second category.

(I am relying broadly on Arthur C Clarke's definition of the genres here - 'fantasy is what you know can never happen but wish that it would, and sf is what you know can happen and usually wish wouldn't', or words to that effect.)

I'd say that Gernsback was responsible for the genre starting to be aware of itself - although John Campbell was the man who nursed the ungainly duckling into a more mature, assured entity. This is an informative article about Campbell, in case anyone is interested: http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/...ll_991130.html

Here's a question - would this story by Ambrose Bierce qualify as at least partly SF?

http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/L_DAMNED.HTM

Edited by littlemissattitude at knivesout's request, 17 March 2004.

[littlemissattitude]

Originally Posted by knivesout

Here's a question - would this story by Jack London qualify as at least partly SF?

http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/L_DAMNED.HTM

Um, knivesout? Why does this link lead to an Ambrose Bierce story and where is the Jack London story? Or am I looking at the wrong thing?

[knivesout]

Originally Posted by littlemissattitude

Um, knivesout? Why does this link lead to an Ambrose Bierce story and where is the Jack London story? Or am I looking at the wrong thing?

My mistake. I had a Jack London story and the Bierce one in mind. I was only able to find the link to the Bierce story and posted it without revising my post. I'll edit it.

Ack...I can't seem to edit my earlier post!! If you could be so kind as to change Jack London to Ambrose Bierce..

[littlemissattitude]

Originally Posted by knivesout

My mistake. I had a Jack London story and the Bierce one in mind. I was only able to find the link to the Bierce story and posted it without revising my post. I'll edit it.

Ack...I can't seem to edit my earlier post!! If you could be so kind as to change Jack London to Ambrose Bierce..

Done, knivesout.

[Stalker]

In my University theses on genesis of SF literature I once mentioned the ancient story dated by - seems to me - the 2nd century AD of unknown author. The story is translated as "The Story of Descending of Alien Creature from Heavens to the Earth". But now I cannot find those theses to be more specific.

The Bible itself (or, at least, its certain passages) may taken for the first sci-fi book.

[knivesout]

No way! There are so many scriptures that predate it and are equally fabulous (n the sense: 'to fabulate').

[Leto]

some mentioned the Gilgamesh tale as the first Sci-Fi story.

[Stalker]

Originally Posted by Leto

some mentioned the Gilgamesh tale as the first Sci-Fi story.

Maybe, I should note here that ancient people percepted the surrounding world in a different way?
The myth of Gilgamesh, the King of Uruk and His Friend Enkidu was felt at that time as quite a true story. Noone thought it fiction. We are speaking of the time when gods lived among people and people took it for granted. That's why that period is called "mythological". So, maybe, we should go forth along time scale to the 17th century. What do you think about Cyrano de Bergerac's work "Other world or the story about the empires and states of the Moon" (1619)?
That was pure fiction and people took it as such.

[knivesout]

Strictly though, only stories that are genuinely extrapolative/prophetic in intention should be considered as proto-sf. Maybe the book of revelations?

[Leto]

Originally Posted by Stalker

Maybe, I should note here that ancient people percepted the surrounding world in a different way?
The myth of Gilgamesh, the King of Uruk and His Friend Enkidu was felt at that time as quite a true story. Noone thought it fiction. We are speaking of the time when gods lived among people and people took it for granted. That's why that period is called "mythological". So, maybe, we should go forth along time scale to the 17th century. What do you think about Cyrano de Bergerac's work "Other world or the story about the empires and states of the Moon" (1619)?
That was pure fiction and people took it as such.

Gilgamesh tales, and later Ovid ones were already perceived as fiction (involving mythological characters) but without religious undertone. Even some Plato's work could qualify too.

If you think to Cyrano, you should mention first Rabelais's Gargantua, Pantagruel and Le tiers livres novels, about one century earlier. Or Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy in the XIIIth century.

[Princess Ivy]

i dunno, gennisis makes case for teraforming of the earth?but then what of the earlier myths of greece, rome, egypt (ok those are my faves) and other ancient cultures. they were told in order to explain the mysteries of life. could they not in turn be considered original science fiction?