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Orson Scott Card Enders Game and onwards

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Old 5th July 2004, 06:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

One thing about the books - buggers.

It seems such a tongue-in-cheek word for an alien race - I wasn't too sure if I was supposed to be taking the story seriously when I read this - as if Card was making a very profound statement usnig Yorkshire-slang, but I just couldn't figure out what it was.
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Old 6th July 2004, 03:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Only SF would have two streams of sequels...
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Old 6th July 2004, 04:51 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I, Brian
One thing about the books - buggers.

It seems such a tongue-in-cheek word for an alien race - I wasn't too sure if I was supposed to be taking the story seriously when I read this - as if Card was making a very profound statement usnig Yorkshire-slang, but I just couldn't figure out what it was.
Yeah, I wondered about his choice of terminology, too. I kind of doubt that it was a double-entendre, though. I think it mostly was just picked because the aliens looked like bugs to humans. Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of SF writers, though.

Quote:
Only SF would have two streams of sequels...
Yeah, that's true. On the whole, though, I think the first book of the second stream, "Ender's Shadow", was an interesting and largely successful experiment. It asked and answered the question, "Can a writer retell a story he's already written from a different point of view and get people to actually read it?" As I said in my review of the book, it is a good read. It approaches the story from a different enough perspective - and begins with a fairly thorough telling of the story of how Bean ended up in Battle School - that it stands up even if you've read "Ender's Game". I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about the two sequels, even though they go on to explore the story after the events in "Game" and "Shadow".
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Old 7th July 2004, 12:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Bean seems to be a very interesting character. I hate SF - as a rule, but allowances have been made for this series.
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Old 7th July 2004, 10:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Have you finsihed it yet?
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Old 8th July 2004, 03:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Almost. I haven't had time to scratch my nose lately Brian. There is so much I want to do, and any free time I get I waste on sites like this.

How are the kids so clever? Is any indication ever given? I have to ignore the Lord Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell undertones. I could have mentioned Thomas Hamilton but just did.

Irrelevant point: Brian next year there will be a special Hugo award for the best SF/F internet site. I don't know what they're looking for.... but you never know.
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Old 8th July 2004, 05:24 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

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Originally Posted by Lacedaemonian
How are the kids so clever? Is any indication ever given?
I don't think there is ever any explanation, except that they test all the kids and pick the most likely ones.

Actually, I think we talked about this a bit before, around the time I joined the forum. So, if I repeat myself here, sorry.

It's just that there are kids out there, a few, who are frighteningly bright. I've known a few, not when they were that age, but older, in college, and I can absolutely imagine that something like what goes on in "Ender's Game" could happen if the testing methods were developed to the level they seem to be in the book. I mean, I know a guy, if warp drive ever gets invented for real, he's the one who will do it. I know one or two other people who are just so smart that they almost don't relate to the rest of the world at all.

Now, me, I'm not nearly that smart, but I was in an MGM (mentally gifted minors) program my last two years of elementary school, when I was in fifth and sixth grades (10 - 11 years old). I got enough experience in that class of being treated as "different" (by teachers, by the other kids), that I could relate to what the kids go through in "Ender's Game", even though what is in the book is on a whole different level than the class I was in.
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Old 8th July 2004, 08:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Thanks for the heads up on the sites issue - I'm not sure this place would be up for a winning spot, as there are giants out there - sci-fi.com, say no more. However, this place is being heavily redeveloped, and it could be a way of getting some worthwhile attention.
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Old 9th July 2004, 12:38 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

No problem Brian.

Not to stereotype, but the clever kids, no matter what martial art they had trained, always got a good hiding off the socially challenged kids at school. Not sure how relevant that point is. I was in all of the top groups at school too, as a six year old I could wire a plug, change a fuse, check that a bulbs filament was not blown, and make simple machines like robots that's eyes flash and spin around. But Ender goes well beyond that.

I loved the book by the way. I consider it to be my favourite SF book ever. I love the part where he discovers his friends are going to be his sub commanders. The last two chapters were fairly **** though. Buggers recreating the Giants landscape??
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Old 9th July 2004, 06:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

The opening scene is purposefully set up to force the reader to sympathise with Ender. It's a clever trick, forcing the reader to associate via emoting. The death aspect seems a little over done, though.

There are elements of Ender's Game that I like, but also others that I don't. The individual scenes are well-written, but there seemed a lot missing behind the premise and plot. The strategy of it all just didn;t seem well-thought out at all - and issues such as children being required to figure out how to defeat the aliens, because no adult human was capable of thinking in third dimensional space like they, all seemed pretty lame. But I could see why he did it - he needed to tie that in with the whole "innocence" theme.
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Old 9th July 2004, 07:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

I suspect that there are some personal issues involved in why Card wrote "Ender's Game" and why he handled it the way he did.

Card is an extremely bright individual. That is obvious, not only from his writing, but from his comments and his manner in panels and talks I attended the year he was guest of honor at LosCon. Life can be hard for a child growing up bright in American culture - being smart is not an especially valued characteristic; fitting in is much more valued. Additionally, the religious tradition Card grew up in (and which I have some experience with, as well) values the intelligent individual even less. That tradition also is not especially nurturing of creativity. That tradition sometimes denies these things, but I know from close experience that what I say is true. My suspicion is that "Ender's Game" was, consciously or not, at least partly Card's way of dealing with being the odd duck. By making the bright kids the salvation of the species, I think, he was trying to validate his own experiences. But in making these kids the salvation of the species, he had to make them really, really smart. Unbelievably smart, compared to most of us.

I could be completely wrong about this, of course. But it certainly seems to me, from my experience in life and in reading "Ender's Game" several times, that it is a good possibility that this was at least one factor in the genesis of the book.
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Old 9th July 2004, 10:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

Certainly I wouldn;t be surprised if there was some truth in that - a lot of Ender's Game seems very conceptual, to the degree of shaping plot, rather than allowing concepts to work within plot.
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Old 21st December 2004, 06:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

i have read all of the ender series and consider speaker for the dead one of the true masterpieces of our time. its exploration of a closed society the unusual threat that befalls it and the way that we view other beings was a personal eye and mind opener.I strongly urge everyone to read this book and find out for themself the meaning it can bring to their life
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Old 25th March 2005, 05:37 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

I've read some of the Alvin Maker series and found it quite interesting. The setting is in a kind of alternate reality colonial/frontier USA. He meets with some rather famous figures in American history and folklore, so some of the references might not seem as touching to someone not versed in American history. I would not by any means say it is on the same level as Ender, it is not. It is however a different sort of fantasy, well written and entertaining. I would not recommed it to someone as an introduction to OSC, but do consider it worth reading if the idea of the setting sparks your curiousity.
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Other OSC books?

i'm currently reading the sixth book in the alvin maker series. i've quite enjoyed them although there is a large hole between book 5 and 6. there seems to have been a lot of things going on that are mentioned in passing that could have been in a seperate novel.
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