Ender: too much of a good thing?

[I, Brian]

Lacedaemonian -

Heh, the trouble with sf/f is that it's such a diverse genre - it really depends what you are seeking.

You've tried Dune and didn't like it - so I'd probably suggest the complete other end of the character spectrum and recommend "2001: A Space Odyssey" by Arthur C Clarke, simply for the ideas.

However, if sf just doesn't ting your bell, and thoughts of fur skin and blades makes you feel more alive, then perhaps it really is worth keeping away from the spacecraft until such point as a decent cross-over presents itself.

[Lacedaemonian]

Excellent points Hypes. I could not disagree with a single point (much to my dislike....). I would say that fantasy is not very diverse. There are good fantasy writers and there are poor fantasy writers, end of diversity. I think that the repetitive nature of fantasy is what draws most people. There is a sort of comfort in knowing what to expect. I have of course taken the hollywood judgement, as you recognised so perceptively. I'll read your recommendations, as you appear to know what you are talking about, and I won't hold it against you if I find any of them a bore. I am always on the look out for new works, as I am sure that you all are. Thanks for the pointers. I already had my eye on Enders Game, can anybody tell me if it is anything like the film Soldier starring Kurt Russell? If you find this question offensive, I do apologise...

[Lacedaemonian]

I have just bought Ender's Game, hopefully I will enjoy it.

[Lacedaemonian]

I am reading Ender's Game, I am enjoying it.

[dwndrgn]

OMG, were you struck by lightning?? Just kidding. Speaking as an avid fantasy fan and sometimes sf fan, I can see where you are going though. I have to take umbrage at your dismissal of fantasy as all the same, however. I, of course, haven't read it all (at least not yet ) but I would think it is fair to say that fantasies all have a similar base line but apart from that there are millions of different stories. For example, Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy is quite different from Alan Dean Foster's Spellsinger series. Both are fantasies. Both involve magic and pre-industrialized societies (nods to Ursula Le Guin) but that is about all they have in common. In the Farseer books you've got an illegitimate heir made into an assassin, ostracized for an ability to commune with animals, dragons that aren't and mysterious 'prophets' that refuse to acknowledge their prophesies. In the Spellsinger series you've got a modern college student, with a talent for singing who ends up living in a society based on animal groups as all the animals are as or more intelligent than their human counterparts. I'd say they are quite different. Now, there are those that are remarkably similar to others. But we won't get into that as you already like the genre, I'm just trying to prove a point.

As far as science fiction goes, there are quite a few good books out there (ok there are lots but I'm not nearly as well read there as in fantasy). Some have already been mentioned. But if you'd like to ease into the genre try some that cross over. L.E. Modesitt has a series like that as well as Piers Anthony.

[I, Brian]

Ender's Game has some fantasy elements (the game with the giant bones, etc), so ultimately someone is going to rubbish it as sciecne fiction on technical grounds.

[knivesout]

Well that game would really qualify more as a cyberpunk element, don't you think?

[Lacedaemonian]

Or a totally **** computer game. Although I would download it, just to gore out the giants eyes...

[Nicado]

Hey Lacedaemonian,

First things first...can you please give me some kinda nick for you cuz your name is too darn long to type and I don't like copying and pasting. Lazy but can type fast.

You've found George RR Martin and his Song of Ice and Fire series. They are not your average fantasy. I just finished a series by the author Glen Cook. It's "The Black Company" series and is a raw read. It's a different read, but I enjoyed the series and, in fact, could not get away with having the next book beside me. The last two books in the multiple series aren't as good as the rest but they are interesting and are still a good read.

Enders Game and co. are all good. Nothing competes with the original, as always, but hey, for sci fi fantasy there is no one better around than Card, unless someone else says different in which case I would love to know who those authors are.

I'm devouring books of sci-fi, sci-fi fantasy, sci-fi comedy, fantasy comedy and fantasy lately. I'm always on the lookout for authors of those genres that other people have found. So if anyone has suggestions please postem.

Happy hunting

Nic

[knivesout]

Actually for me those last chapters were most important, becuase they address the one question that really needs to be asked about any war: was it justified? Ender was increasingly uncomfortable with his role as The Ender of the buggers - and that final revelation was perhaps the most tough and thought-provoking element of the whole story, and hats off to Card for being willing to put it in. It is easy to ignore this aspect, glibly presenting the conflicts as inevitable and then getting on with the battles. In real life, greed, ingnorance and fear are the main factors that make conflict inevitable - a truth that Ender's Game does not skirt around.

[Jucifer]

Fantasy is all about new or alterante worlds Sci Fi sometimes is about how to get to those new worlds. Of course the two genres cross over from time to time. I'll admit though some Sci Fi can be very boring to fantasy fans who don't like science, therories, or numbers.

Hyperion by Don Simmons is an example of cross over between sci fi and fantasy. But I have a feeling that more than a few fantasy readers would claim its pure sci fi.

Neuromancer by William Gibson is a great work of sci fi. Its becoming a very possible reality as a matter of fact. Artificial Inteligence while at its infancy is a must take course for every computer science major in college. And the interenet absorbed many humans into it.

[fish]

Originally Posted by Jucifer

Neuromancer by William Gibson is a great work of sci fi. Its becoming a very possible reality as a matter of fact. Artificial Inteligence while at its infancy is a must take course for every computer science major in college. And the interenet absorbed many humans into it.

If you'll look at the sequels to Neuromancer you'll see they get rather fantastic,

a lot about "ghosts" that are not strongly tied to the scientific/technological aspects of the story...

[Adelbert100]

I really enjoyed abut 85% of Ender's Game and then felt disappointed with the very end.

I'm not sure why I felt that way, but it left me definitely not wanting to read any sequels.

[Leto]

Originally Posted by Lacedaemonian

I don't mean to offend. I was hoping that perhaps people who were passionate about SF could show me the error of my ways. If people named works that blew my words to dust than I would be much pleased, as my eyes would be open to new possibility. How best to stoke passion then step on a few toes? You're right of course, but a bit friendly banter is always welcome in the house of the Lake Daemon. Fantasy is essentially based on peoples and events in history, and is sometimes considered to be an ode to the unwritten history of man. SF is based on concepts of the future. What can I say I am a pessimist, the future holds nothing for me. I see mankind as being vile, and becoming viler at an uncanny rate. Fantasy offers the promise of an end to such matters. The Once and Future king and all that. SF does offer warnings....

Err, have you tried "Lord Valentin's castle" by Robert Silverberg ?
it's SF but not at all about tech, and the plot is similar to the plot of many fantasy books.

[I, Brian]

That's a point - Peter - what did you think of Ender's Game in the end? I don;t remember you ever posting your thoughts on that. Is it better that you hadn't?