DeLorean Time Machine

[Ivanhoe]

First of all there are two main time travel theories

1. Single Line time
2. Paralel Time universes

According to the first all events in our universe are predicted. All time travel and time loops have happened. And they have been biult into the main time line. According to this theory universe is a complex simulation in wich all things have been determined. For Ex. all your future time travel is already implemented into the time line. Future time travelers and the effect they have on our (or any other time) time have been "inserted".

The second one states that a time "jump" of certain person or persons, creates a paralell universe(one additional universe variation for each "time jump"). This is the idea they "tried" in Back to the future . For. Ex.
When you travel to the past. You leave your previous universe forever. All the things in that universe you left develop as if you simply dissapeared. Your past in this universe is still there but it is as if you physicaly dissapeared and the future events develop as if you will never return. And according to this theory you can't.
A new paralel universe variant is created at the time point in wich you have jumped. All previous events are kept but the "new history " of that universe is starting with you in it and you make it as you go along. Then if you jump again you leave the previous one to go to another paralel universe.

The variations between paralel universes can be as litle as just difrent posision of dust particles in the air or as big as total unexistance of species, individuals, planets ?!!?

why would someone leave his time line ... well the new time line can be altered just as much to suit the time traveler. Take a look at Back to the future part 1. Marty changed created a new one in which his father is not a wimp, his father has a great job etc. (not changing the way he will eventually meet Doc and use the time traveling "Delorian".

The main question is what happened to the world he left behind, well ... the most logical solution is that they continued their lifes without the individual that went into "time travel".

Some of the people tried to mix these two main time travel theories into one. That would be something they tried in Frequency. One time line which alters. The whole thing goes like this: Time travel creates a synch between the startin time and destination time. All the changes you make in the time that is before the other creates new changes and they happen simultaneously. Matter but even human memories change in an instant. Realy confusing. But it is difficult to synch two time lines or what would happen if 10 people went back in time. Imagine 10 time lines in synch and the changes the all simultaneously make .....

Pure chaos .....

[Asmiley]

okay in layman's terms that is?

My head is spinning reading that bit.:alienooh: :twirl:

[Prophet4Profit]

But what happened to the Marty from the 'Marty's-Dad-is-not-a-wimp' timeline?

Please dont tell me that he created a time line where his Dad IS a wimp in his own Time Travel adventure!

[Dave]

I see what you mean now if you only believe in those two time travel theories, and modern physics suggests that the parallel timeline 'Sliders' theory is the correct one. Your explanations are excellent.

But in fiction, usually bad fiction I confess, there has also been a third idea; that you still have a single timeline, but it is not immutable or unchangeable. In that kind of time travel you could change the past, and have photos fade out in the future.

And I think what Profit4Motive was saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is that that theory was used in BTTF.

[Prophet4Profit]

You are correct sir! Hey-ooooh!:nuts:

But one must keep in mind that there are infinite legitimate variations of both time-travel paradigms in GOOD SF as well.

[Asmiley]

wow this is getting too technical for me. I'm otta here!:alienooh:

[Prophet4Profit]

wow this is getting too technical for me. I'm otta here!

Such level of detail is par for the course in any conversation even remotly involving time-travel. Just be glad that I did not see it fit to pull out my 5-dimensional conception of the universe... I know that Ivanhoe must certainly be:naughty:

[Ivanhoe]

But what happened to the Marty from the 'Marty's-Dad-is-not-a-wimp' timeline?

Please dont tell me that he created a time line where his Dad IS a wimp in his own Time Travel adventure!

No you don't understand. In BTTF We are NOT following "the other marti's time travel jumps" we are following the original Marti's time travel jumps ( Marti from the universe where his father IS a wimp). The "other Marti's" time travel at the end of the part 1 could be entierly diferent from original Martie's but one thing is for sure. The "other Martie's" history is the one where the Original Marti WAS in 1955 messing with his parents and if the "other Marti" was to travel into that time he would see original Marti doing the stuff from Part1 . But don't confuse this with original Marti's return to 1955 in Part 2. The "other marti" would have "branched " his own paralel time variant. There fore the original Marti would not see what the other Matri did in 1955 after his yime jump at the end of part 1. The reason is beacuse it is not in the past of his time universe. In his universe the other Marti left FOREVER when he time jumped at the end of part 1. (creating his own time branch) ....

Confusing but makes sence in the "Paralel time theory"

But in fiction, usually bad fiction I confess, there has also been a third idea; that you still have a single timeline, but it is not immutable or unchangeable. In that kind of time travel you could change the past, and have photos fade out in the future.

Yes It seems like BTTF series can't deside what time travel theory to follow so it just mixes everything up ... creating an apsolute mess but mainly it is Parallel time (if you rule ou the mentioned mistake in logic when old biff went back to 1955)

[Dave]

Basically, are you saying that in a 'single timeline' idea, the two Marty's could not exist together in 1955? If you are then I think I understand you, but not sure if I agree.

But anyway, I already said:

Originally posted by Dave
BTTF -- I think that if you analyse it too much, that it won't hold together very well, but it doesn't bother me because it was so much fun!

And my brain is starting to hurt!

[Prophet4Profit]

No you don't understand. In BTTF We are NOT following "the other marti's time travel jumps" we are following the original Marti's time travel jumps ( Marti from the universe where his father IS a wimp).

I understand entirely... but if we were to speak realisticly, the probebility of marty being born in such a different universe is slim at best. A second's variation in his parant's fatefull coupling would rersult in the supremecy of another sperm cell, and a month would bring about the change of the egg...

[Asmiley]

Originally posted by Prophet4Profit
Such level of detail is par for the course in any conversation even remotly involving time-travel. Just be glad that I did not see it fit to pull out my 5-dimensional conception of the universe... I know that Ivanhoe must certainly be:naughty:

Sheesh. I need to go to the lybrary and look up scientifc theories and Beyond or somtin like that, Just to understand this converse then?



And thankyou Dave for pointing that out!

[Dave]

Just to say has anyone else read "The Man Who Folded Himself".

[Ivanhoe]

Originally posted by Dave
Basically, are you saying that in a 'single timeline' idea, the two Marty's could not exist together in 1955? If you are then I think I understand you, but not sure if I agree.

No, you missunderstood two Marties can exist in 1955 but the thing with Single line time is that you actualy can't change anything. For ex. The time travel you make to the past is already the past of your universe. You just haven't lived through it. But anyway this theory has a hole. expecialy when you time travel intentionaly in ordr to cheat the rules.

...
Example. You put an egg on your desk and leave it there for 10 minutes. Then you travel back in time 5 minutes and smash the egg on your desk. According to this theory, that's not possible... there'd be something there to stop you. I reckon you could break the rule and smash the egg

You know what would hapen then : 5 minutes after you put the egg on your desk you would see your other self creating out of nowhere and smashing the egg.

The question is when you see yourself smashing the egg in singe line time .... what will you do ? that is will you time travel or sudenly decline to do it ...
The answer is simple you will time travel since you smashed the egg it acualy happened so it happened ... heh kinda mind blowing .... but that's single line time for ya ....
OK, so you've decided you're gonna do this experiment.. you put down the egg at 8:00... if another 'you' appears at 8:05 then you refuse to go back in time. If he does show up, you decide to go back. Weird hey...

So , on a mission to explicitly cheat the rule, you decide to go back if and only if the other guy doesn't show up. Similarly you don't go back if and only if the guy does show up.

Well thats it, this the logicall mistake of single line time. I tend to agree with the paralell time universes...

[Dave]

Originally posted by Ivanhoe
The question is when you see yourself smashing the egg in singe line time .... what will you do ? that is will you time travel or sudenly decline to do it ...
The answer is simple you will time travel since you smashed the egg it acualy happened so it happened ... heh kinda mind blowing .... but that's single line time for ya ....
OK, so you've decided you're gonna do this experiment.. you put down the egg at 8:00... if another 'you' appears at 8:05 then you refuse to go back in time. If he does show up, you decide to go back. Weird hey...

The book that I just mentioned 'The man who folded himself' covers exactly this topic. He starts off just messing around and trying to make money gambling on certain winners, but as he tries to correct mistakes he makes along the way, he reiterates himself, and makes it all worse still. He also has the dilemmas of whether he should go back again or not, but finds it impossible to stop himself having one more try. Eventually, he stumbles upon the one certain thing which he cannot ever change.

We have a rule about keeping signatures to 5 lines please, they slow down page loading when they get too big.

[Dave]

Is anyone looking for a job?

This one would suit someone with some experience in Temporal mechanics.