4.07: The Initiative - Page 3 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Vampyre · 17th February 2002, 12:02 AM

That episode is the 7th ep of season 4, 'The Initiative'...which is the title of this thread.

Highlander II · 18th February 2002, 03:40 PM

nope - there is stuff about Adam in this thread -- Adam doesn't even show 'til the end of season 4 - that's what i meant - not the other stuff about the Initiative --- that stuff goes here --

Vampyre · 18th February 2002, 08:55 PM

But the episode where Harmony burns Spike's stuff is the title of this thread, thats what I meant.

Highlander II · 2nd March 2003, 07:46 PM

I think when they moved this to syndication, they cut something, not necessarily super-important, but significant - like, when Spike tries to bite Willow for the first time - doesn't he rear back in pain before they cut to a commercial? My version from syndication has him try to bite her, then it cuts out and when it comes back he's sitting at the foot of the bed moping...

Anyone know??

markpud · 3rd March 2003, 03:18 PM

We don't get advert breaks in the same place over here (do you have more ad breaks than me do??) and I haven't watched the eppy for a while so I can't be sure, but I think it does fade to an act break as Spike goes to bite Willow the first time.

Oh, and about the Adam spoilers, I think we decided that since S4 is old news now it's not worth spoilering things, especially in a season 4 forum..

Highlander II · 3rd March 2003, 09:00 PM

Mark - you do realize that discussion was like almost a year ago, right? about the spoilers ---

anyway --

I dunno how they do ad breaks over there, man - I don't live there - only here - and in syndication, there are MORE ad breaks than usual - at least on FX there are - ugh - very annoying -

was just wondering if he screamed when he tried to bite her the first time, or if they showed him trying to, then fade out / fade in - he's on the foot of the bed and they're talking -- b/c, if he doesn't yell - the rest of the scene makes no sense - you know what I mean?

obcooke · 3rd March 2003, 11:07 PM

From an Association of National Advertisers, Inc. report dated last year.

Four networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) are within one minute of each other for non-program minutes in prime time, the closest they've been since November 1999. CBS experienced an increase of 26 seconds to 16:04 from the previous year ...

Syndication Market

..."Home Improvement" experienced the largest decrease in clutter versus a year ago, a difference of 3:34 minutes to 16:58 in 2001. Due to this, "Frasier" replaced "Home Improvement" as the syndicated program with the most commercial minutes (17:07).

---

So at least two HALF-HOUR TV shows had an extra minute of "non-program" time inserted. We're getting more commercials than we are show.

First run Buffys, in prime time, typically run about 42 minutes without commercials, so it has 17-18 minutes of "non-program" time. I can remember a few years ago a one-hour TV show ran about 45 minutes without commercials. The report mentions, with disapproval, that each year it seems the actual program time gets shorter.

I'm not sure how much more is cut from the syndication versions of Buffy.

In the US there are frequently 10-20 second commercials, so it only takes a minute or less to greatly increase the number of commercials. Besides that, many shows add an extra commercial break, so the program is interrupted at a point where it normally wouldn't be. Sometimes the point where they decide to make these breaks is jarring and disrupts the flow of the story.

But the point is even a minute missing from Buffy can mean that interesting, entertaining or even important information can be left out.

For another example see my comments over the weekend on #4.19: New Moon Rising among others in the previous seasons.

[Highlander II: ...was just wondering if he screamed when he tried to bite her the first time, or if they showed him trying to, then fade out / fade in - he's on the foot of the bed and they're talking -- b/c, if he doesn't yell - the rest of the scene makes no sense - you know what I mean?]

Actually, Markpud is right about the sequence. Spike goes to bite her <Commercial Break> Spike is sitting at the end of the bed moping.

Willow and Spike talk about his inability to perform in a way that makes it sound like they are talking about... well, an inability to perform, which was pretty comical I thought.

If you're looking for cosmic themes, it would be vampirism as a metaphor for sex.

A little later Willow actually encourages Spike to try again and we see what happens when he tries, so the real problem is explained.

markpud · 5th March 2003, 01:22 PM

Thanks OB, good to know my memory is still intact

Highlander II · 13th June 2003, 03:58 PM

Wanna know something about commericals and such -- back when original ST ran - the eps wer 52 minutes! We've lost 10 minutes in almost 40 years! That's insane! (I have a copy of 'Trouble with Tribbles' and it's listed as running at 52 minutes.) --

On FX - BtVS runs at 40.3 minutes (including the credits) - so they suck out about a minute and a half - which is a LOT in story-time.

The shot where Spike tries to bite Willow -- I know why it looks funny in syndie ---

Got my DVDs yesterday and had to watch this ep 1st ---

Spike tries to bite Willow and the shot pans out to the hallway - that hallway pan shot is missing in syndie -- so it's more abrupt - but that shot is important to the story -- it's supposed to make you think that Spike killed Willow ---- THEN, when it comes back after the 'commerical break', they have the 'conversation' and it's much more effective ----- stupid syndication...

I watched the ep w/ the commentary on - Douglas Petrie is a riot!

Oh - and about Spike's chip ---- apparently it needed time to 'warm up' and work or be activated -- b/c at the end of the episode Riley says something along the lines of "Hostile 17 can't hurt any human being (or something). Can't feed, can't hardly even hit anymore..." -- as in, he could hit ppl after he first escaped, but the chip is working now and it's all geared up and Spike can't hit ppl anymore. Like the pain when trying to feed came first, then the chip warmed up to the rest of Spike's violence and he can't punch and kick either... so he can't beat someone to death and *then* eat them... kind of like eliminating feeding by proxy ---- and that's complicated, and probably NOT what they'd initially intended, but it's a nice work-around w/ one line at the end of the ep -----

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

17th February 2002, 12:02 AM	#31 (permalink)
Vampyre The Big Bad. Join Date: May 2001 Location: ENGLAND! Posts: 2,369	That episode is the 7th ep of season 4, 'The Initiative'...which is the title of this thread.

18th February 2002, 03:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	nope - there is stuff about Adam in this thread -- Adam doesn't even show 'til the end of season 4 - that's what i meant - not the other stuff about the Initiative --- that stuff goes here --

18th February 2002, 08:55 PM	#33 (permalink)
Vampyre The Big Bad. Join Date: May 2001 Location: ENGLAND! Posts: 2,369	But the episode where Harmony burns Spike's stuff is the title of this thread, thats what I meant.

2nd March 2003, 07:46 PM	#34 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	I think when they moved this to syndication, they cut something, not necessarily super-important, but significant - like, when Spike tries to bite Willow for the first time - doesn't he rear back in pain before they cut to a commercial? My version from syndication has him try to bite her, then it cuts out and when it comes back he's sitting at the foot of the bed moping... Anyone know??

3rd March 2003, 03:18 PM	#35 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	We don't get advert breaks in the same place over here (do you have more ad breaks than me do??) and I haven't watched the eppy for a while so I can't be sure, but I think it does fade to an act break as Spike goes to bite Willow the first time. Oh, and about the Adam spoilers, I think we decided that since S4 is old news now it's not worth spoilering things, especially in a season 4 forum..

3rd March 2003, 09:00 PM	#36 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Mark - you do realize that discussion was like almost a year ago, right? about the spoilers --- anyway -- I dunno how they do ad breaks over there, man - I don't live there - only here - and in syndication, there are MORE ad breaks than usual - at least on FX there are - ugh - very annoying - was just wondering if he screamed when he tried to bite her the first time, or if they showed him trying to, then fade out / fade in - he's on the foot of the bed and they're talking -- b/c, if he doesn't yell - the rest of the scene makes no sense - you know what I mean?

3rd March 2003, 11:07 PM	#37 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	From an Association of National Advertisers, Inc. report dated last year. Four networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) are within one minute of each other for non-program minutes in prime time, the closest they've been since November 1999. CBS experienced an increase of 26 seconds to 16:04 from the previous year ... Syndication Market ..."Home Improvement" experienced the largest decrease in clutter versus a year ago, a difference of 3:34 minutes to 16:58 in 2001. Due to this, "Frasier" replaced "Home Improvement" as the syndicated program with the most commercial minutes (17:07). --- So at least two HALF-HOUR TV shows had an extra minute of "non-program" time inserted. We're getting more commercials than we are show. First run Buffys, in prime time, typically run about 42 minutes without commercials, so it has 17-18 minutes of "non-program" time. I can remember a few years ago a one-hour TV show ran about 45 minutes without commercials. The report mentions, with disapproval, that each year it seems the actual program time gets shorter. I'm not sure how much more is cut from the syndication versions of Buffy. In the US there are frequently 10-20 second commercials, so it only takes a minute or less to greatly increase the number of commercials. Besides that, many shows add an extra commercial break, so the program is interrupted at a point where it normally wouldn't be. Sometimes the point where they decide to make these breaks is jarring and disrupts the flow of the story. But the point is even a minute missing from Buffy can mean that interesting, entertaining or even important information can be left out. For another example see my comments over the weekend on #4.19: New Moon Rising among others in the previous seasons. [Highlander II: ...was just wondering if he screamed when he tried to bite her the first time, or if they showed him trying to, then fade out / fade in - he's on the foot of the bed and they're talking -- b/c, if he doesn't yell - the rest of the scene makes no sense - you know what I mean?] Actually, Markpud is right about the sequence. Spike goes to bite her <Commercial Break> Spike is sitting at the end of the bed moping. Willow and Spike talk about his inability to perform in a way that makes it sound like they are talking about... well, an inability to perform, which was pretty comical I thought. If you're looking for cosmic themes, it would be vampirism as a metaphor for sex. A little later Willow actually encourages Spike to try again and we see what happens when he tries, so the real problem is explained.

5th March 2003, 01:22 PM	#38 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	Thanks OB, good to know my memory is still intact

13th June 2003, 03:58 PM	#39 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Wanna know something about commericals and such -- back when original ST ran - the eps wer 52 minutes! We've lost 10 minutes in almost 40 years! That's insane! (I have a copy of 'Trouble with Tribbles' and it's listed as running at 52 minutes.) -- On FX - BtVS runs at 40.3 minutes (including the credits) - so they suck out about a minute and a half - which is a LOT in story-time. The shot where Spike tries to bite Willow -- I know why it looks funny in syndie --- Got my DVDs yesterday and had to watch this ep 1st --- Spike tries to bite Willow and the shot pans out to the hallway - that hallway pan shot is missing in syndie -- so it's more abrupt - but that shot is important to the story -- it's supposed to make you think that Spike killed Willow ---- THEN, when it comes back after the 'commerical break', they have the 'conversation' and it's much more effective ----- stupid syndication... I watched the ep w/ the commentary on - Douglas Petrie is a riot! Oh - and about Spike's chip ---- apparently it needed time to 'warm up' and work or be activated -- b/c at the end of the episode Riley says something along the lines of "Hostile 17 can't hurt any human being (or something). Can't feed, can't hardly even hit anymore..." -- as in, he could hit ppl after he first escaped, but the chip is working now and it's all geared up and Spike can't hit ppl anymore. Like the pain when trying to feed came first, then the chip warmed up to the rest of Spike's violence and he can't punch and kick either... so he can't beat someone to death and then eat them... kind of like eliminating feeding by proxy ---- and that's complicated, and probably NOT what they'd initially intended, but it's a nice work-around w/ one line at the end of the ep -----