9th Chevron - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Desepticon4 · 20th February 2001, 06:55 PM

I wonder what the ninth chevron would be used for. The eight in "the fifth race" added a new distance calculation. I wonder what the 9th does. Maybe it does something that no one ever thought the Stargate could ever do.

Dave · 20th February 2001, 07:06 PM

Someone? has already suggested this could be a time travel thing. I don't know where I read that. It may have been on these boards somewhere!

the_Brainz · 20th February 2001, 07:34 PM

That a potential ninth chevron could be used to calculate time is probably the logical next step, however it's a bit more complicated than that. I am not entirely certain what the eigth chevron does to the distance calculation -- frankly I can't see a reason for it, although I'm sure there is one. However, to travel through time, as we know the wormhole can, I think you would surely need as many chevrons as temporal coordinates. I have no idea how you would determine temporal coordinates, however, or how many there would be...but 1 seems like a tad too few. Anyone have any ideas how you could map specific places in time?

muzungu · 21st February 2001, 10:34 AM

In order to map a position four measurements need to be made. You can use cartesian, spherical polar, cylidrical polar etc it doesn't matter very much as long as you can fix in space where it is (eg x,y,z) you also need one time coordinate.

Even though only one time coordinate is needed I don't think that the ninth chevron allows the stargate to access other times as its still a constellation glyph. Instead i think that the ninth chevron simply allows you to travel beyond our local cluster of galxies.

Another problem with the time travel aspect is that its possible to go forward or backward in time without using the ninth chevron.

jsc · 21st February 2001, 02:22 PM

In the Fifth Race the eighth chevron with the aid of the Asgard power up divice allowed Jack to go out of our galaxy to where the Asgard were (The same thing happened for the AU Dr. Samantha Carter in Point of View). The ninth Chevron well... everone is speculating on. SG-1 used Solar Flares to time travel in 1969 and 2010.

Desepticon4,Have Started a welcome thread in the Newbie Section for you. You can use the Pull down menu at the bottom of the page to find it or the Branching Menu at the top of the page Just click on the underlined word STARGATE.

the_Brainz · 21st February 2001, 05:09 PM

I had not considered that the ninth chevron was still a constellation symbol -- which he very rightly pointed out that it was. Therefore, it would seem highly unlikely that a ninth chevron would cause a timeshift. However, there is something I am wondering about:

Six of the chevrons are x1, x2, y1, y2, z1, z2 coordinates. By triangulation, this will give you a middle point; the coordinates of the dialled stargate. Personally, I have to wonder how the devil the gate actually works out the spacial coordinates from only 39 chevrons, which can all be be used for x, y or z. The fact that there's an extra symbol for going outside our galaxy makes perfect sense if you consider this, but I think that it would have been a lot more logical to simply say that the six chevrons were the unique address of a stargate, and have nothing to do with space and time; these could be worked out automatically by the stargate. The ninth symbol, then, could possibly be used for another galaxy than Thor's, and perhaps further away -- however, having a different eighth chevron for different galaxies makes a good deal of sense, except that there are a lot more than 39 galaxies floating about up there. I would probably have chosen to have at least another two chevrons for an extra-galactic address, which gives you 39e2 (or is that 2e39?) possible galaxies, or 1521. I think. On the other hand, we don't know how big the stargate system is; it may not extend beyond more than 20 galaxies, in which case you would only need eight chevrons. Does anyone have any ideas on this?

And oh, hey, here's an idea -- maybe the ninth chevron wouldn't make the wormhole jump in time, but since they're spatial coordinates, there's nothing against the ninth and maybe tenth, eleventh and so on chevrons causing the gate jump through different parallel dimensions...just a hopeful thought ;)

Dave · 21st February 2001, 07:29 PM

Having read all that, and understanding most of it!.... I think you are probably right that it doesn't involve time....I only said I had read someone suggesting that!

As for the extent of the Stargate system, that depends on who built it. I have a feeling that we may meet the 'Builders' in Season 5,.........

*****spoiler*********

them being so far from home, they need some way to get back!

the_Brainz · 21st February 2001, 09:23 PM

My "as a writer" line is getting to be such a habit with me that I'm going to abbreviate it to AAW. Sounds a bit like "aw", but aw well. Hmm.

Anyhoo, as a writer, your idea that we may meet the creators of the stargate network in the fifth season is interesting, but I am afraid I cannot agree. This may sound odd, because it sure would be cool to meet them, but I would like to explain:

Often, when I am watching a movie with a friend or friends, I can predict what will happen, and what will not. That is not to say I can tell them exactly how the movie will end, what its plot twists will be, etc. I can't do that -- neither can I predict very far in advance, because depending on how the story progresses, different things are likely to happen. That may sound rather "duh", however often things will happen in the movie that will make perfect sense to me, and leave me feeling like "yes, this person did it right", but my friends will be wondering why the hell that just went down. A classic example is in Pitch Black where the hero-babe gets killed almost at the end of the movie. I didn't exactly see it coming, but I knew that if I was writing it I would not allow her to survive the movie; it would be too convenient, too much a happy ending. The fact that the criminal got them off the planet but she died, even after everything she did, made not only perfect sense from a general plot point of view, but also from the subtle character development that happened during the movie, and simply on merit that it was thoroughly ironic. I won't write an essay trying to explain that; I was simply trying to illustrate that I feel (and I know this sounds terribly uppish) I have a certain insight into how movies and TV series work, what makes sense in terms of plot and character development, and what would not benefit the series/book/movie in the long run, even though it might be cool in the short run.

Having SG-1 meet the stargate creators is something I feel is a bad idea. It would cause a nasty rip in the overall atmosphere of the series, because everything revolves around this mysterious stargate that no one really understands, and no one knows who built it. In some ways, it is almost the point of Stargate that the origins of the gate remain a mystery, because the series is supposed to focus on human achievement and endeavour, while reminding us that a little help can never go awry, and that we are not nearly as wonderful as we like to think we are.

AAW, I would not allow the creators of the stargate to ever be directly seen. I would probably not even want to think too much abou them, because I would be afraid I could not do them justice. That said, I might have a completely different view of how Stargate should develop to Michael Greenburg. And he's the one that counts really, isn't he?

Dave · 23rd February 2001, 04:22 PM

It probably would spoil the story if they met some aliens so incredibly advanced that, to us, they had almost magical powers, because as you say, there would be no room for human achievement over insurmountable odds; their problems could all be solved overnight by a wave of the hand.
It's just that I can't see a way back without use of some other Technology that they haven't encountered yet. And I'm also conscious of Thor's line about the 'Ancients' going "beyond" or something. But we may just see 'Ancients' technology and not actually the 'Ancients' themselves.
We shall find out soon anyway.

jsc · 24th February 2001, 04:12 AM

Having seen the Ancients want to go back in time in Window of Opportunity I am not so sure they would be the all powerful creatures that one envisions. I keep thinking about some of the comments of less technological people when meeting with more technological ones when they find out how things are done. It is surprising how adaptable humans are and what happens when technology is explained. The Ancients are still, I presume, finding challenges. And as long as they are not used as Deus ex machina it wouldn't hurt the series.

Ancients50 · 12th June 2001, 04:11 PM

once i (for some unknown reason) sat down and typed up somthing that explained everything(almost) about the stargate.
Here is what i wrote about the 8th and 9th chevron:

Many people have wondered about the purpose of the 9th chevron after the use of the 8th chevron to input distance in "The fifth race" i tink the simpliest expenation is that the ancients were thinking ahead when they bulit the stargate network. they added the the 8th chevron to lock on to stargates within the local super-cluster of galaxys and i belive that the ancients added the 9th in the unlikley event that they made contact with cultures in other super-clusters, the 9th chevron could be used to connect stargates in the different super-clusters.

I hope this makes sense.

muzungu · 12th June 2001, 05:58 PM

Hi Ancients50

right however as the the_Brainz wrote previously the 8th and 9th chevron only increase the number of gates by 1521, so it is probably more likely that they allow access to gate networks in the different clusters rather than superclusters.

Ancients50 · 6th July 2001, 04:19 PM

Sorry i mean't clusters.
The way i see it is that within one system of stargates(e.g. Our galaxy's one) each cordinate is fixed(earth's address is the same no matter where you are)But once you start to leave the local system using the 8th and 9th chevron it becomes relative.If you wanted to get to a gate in a system of gates in one direction of you, up for simplicity you'd enter the cordinates for the gate in that network plus a constillation in the direction up. But if you were in a network to the left of that planet's network it's cordinates would be its local cordinates plus a constillation in the direction right.

Using this system you could have an infinity number if gate networks accesible by "hopping" through other networks

PTeppic · 10th July 2001, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by muzungu
right however as the the_Brainz wrote previously the 8th and 9th chevron only increase the number of gates by 1521, so it is probably more likely that they allow access to gate networks in the different clusters rather than superclusters.

But that is a MULTIPLCATION by 1521, not an addition of.

There are 38**6 (=3,010,936,384) desintations (theoretically) with 7 glyphs, though many will not work since the planets physically can't form the co-ordinates in space. Adding 8th and 9th glyphs will take the total up to 38**8 (=4,347,792,138,496)

Shaun · 9th August 2001, 10:21 AM

Here's my theory on it. Maybe it just does nothing, well to the life forms using it, but actually alerts the ancients to the highly developed race. The alien race would have to be very advanced as just using the 8th Chevron requires a lot more energy and the ninth may take an extraodinary amount. This way they could check up on them and make sure they aren't like the Goauld, and if they are intervene.

20th February 2001, 07:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
the_Brainz behind the operation Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: plp://nz.p3.sol/hamilton.reg Posts: 95	Mapping time That a potential ninth chevron could be used to calculate time is probably the logical next step, however it's a bit more complicated than that. I am not entirely certain what the eigth chevron does to the distance calculation -- frankly I can't see a reason for it, although I'm sure there is one. However, to travel through time, as we know the wormhole can, I think you would surely need as many chevrons as temporal coordinates. I have no idea how you would determine temporal coordinates, however, or how many there would be...but 1 seems like a tad too few. Anyone have any ideas how you could map specific places in time?

21st February 2001, 02:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
jsc God Like Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Los Angeles, California,U.S.A. Posts: 4,352	HI, Desepticon4, Welcome! In the Fifth Race the eighth chevron with the aid of the Asgard power up divice allowed Jack to go out of our galaxy to where the Asgard were (The same thing happened for the AU Dr. Samantha Carter in Point of View). The ninth Chevron well... everone is speculating on. SG-1 used Solar Flares to time travel in 1969 and 2010. Desepticon4,Have Started a welcome thread in the Newbie Section for you. You can use the Pull down menu at the bottom of the page to find it or the Branching Menu at the top of the page Just click on the underlined word STARGATE.

21st February 2001, 05:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
the_Brainz behind the operation Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: plp://nz.p3.sol/hamilton.reg Posts: 95	muzungu makes an excellent point I had not considered that the ninth chevron was still a constellation symbol -- which he very rightly pointed out that it was. Therefore, it would seem highly unlikely that a ninth chevron would cause a timeshift. However, there is something I am wondering about: Six of the chevrons are x1, x2, y1, y2, z1, z2 coordinates. By triangulation, this will give you a middle point; the coordinates of the dialled stargate. Personally, I have to wonder how the devil the gate actually works out the spacial coordinates from only 39 chevrons, which can all be be used for x, y or z. The fact that there's an extra symbol for going outside our galaxy makes perfect sense if you consider this, but I think that it would have been a lot more logical to simply say that the six chevrons were the unique address of a stargate, and have nothing to do with space and time; these could be worked out automatically by the stargate. The ninth symbol, then, could possibly be used for another galaxy than Thor's, and perhaps further away -- however, having a different eighth chevron for different galaxies makes a good deal of sense, except that there are a lot more than 39 galaxies floating about up there. I would probably have chosen to have at least another two chevrons for an extra-galactic address, which gives you 39e2 (or is that 2e39?) possible galaxies, or 1521. I think. On the other hand, we don't know how big the stargate system is; it may not extend beyond more than 20 galaxies, in which case you would only need eight chevrons. Does anyone have any ideas on this? And oh, hey, here's an idea -- maybe the ninth chevron wouldn't make the wormhole jump in time, but since they're spatial coordinates, there's nothing against the ninth and maybe tenth, eleventh and so on chevrons causing the gate jump through different parallel dimensions...just a hopeful thought ;)

21st February 2001, 09:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
the_Brainz behind the operation Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: plp://nz.p3.sol/hamilton.reg Posts: 95	AAW My "as a writer" line is getting to be such a habit with me that I'm going to abbreviate it to AAW. Sounds a bit like "aw", but aw well. Hmm. Anyhoo, as a writer, your idea that we may meet the creators of the stargate network in the fifth season is interesting, but I am afraid I cannot agree. This may sound odd, because it sure would be cool to meet them, but I would like to explain: Often, when I am watching a movie with a friend or friends, I can predict what will happen, and what will not. That is not to say I can tell them exactly how the movie will end, what its plot twists will be, etc. I can't do that -- neither can I predict very far in advance, because depending on how the story progresses, different things are likely to happen. That may sound rather "duh", however often things will happen in the movie that will make perfect sense to me, and leave me feeling like "yes, this person did it right", but my friends will be wondering why the hell that just went down. A classic example is in Pitch Black where the hero-babe gets killed almost at the end of the movie. I didn't exactly see it coming, but I knew that if I was writing it I would not allow her to survive the movie; it would be too convenient, too much a happy ending. The fact that the criminal got them off the planet but she died, even after everything she did, made not only perfect sense from a general plot point of view, but also from the subtle character development that happened during the movie, and simply on merit that it was thoroughly ironic. I won't write an essay trying to explain that; I was simply trying to illustrate that I feel (and I know this sounds terribly uppish) I have a certain insight into how movies and TV series work, what makes sense in terms of plot and character development, and what would not benefit the series/book/movie in the long run, even though it might be cool in the short run. Having SG-1 meet the stargate creators is something I feel is a bad idea. It would cause a nasty rip in the overall atmosphere of the series, because everything revolves around this mysterious stargate that no one really understands, and no one knows who built it. In some ways, it is almost the point of Stargate that the origins of the gate remain a mystery, because the series is supposed to focus on human achievement and endeavour, while reminding us that a little help can never go awry, and that we are not nearly as wonderful as we like to think we are. AAW, I would not allow the creators of the stargate to ever be directly seen. I would probably not even want to think too much abou them, because I would be afraid I could not do them justice. That said, I might have a completely different view of how Stargate should develop to Michael Greenburg. And he's the one that counts really, isn't he?

12th June 2001, 04:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ancients50 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 3	9th chevron once i (for some unknown reason) sat down and typed up somthing that explained everything(almost) about the stargate. Here is what i wrote about the 8th and 9th chevron: Many people have wondered about the purpose of the 9th chevron after the use of the 8th chevron to input distance in "The fifth race" i tink the simpliest expenation is that the ancients were thinking ahead when they bulit the stargate network. they added the the 8th chevron to lock on to stargates within the local super-cluster of galaxys and i belive that the ancients added the 9th in the unlikley event that they made contact with cultures in other super-clusters, the 9th chevron could be used to connect stargates in the different super-clusters. I hope this makes sense.

20th February 2001, 06:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Desepticon4 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 4	I wonder what the ninth chevron would be used for. The eight in "the fifth race" added a new distance calculation. I wonder what the 9th does. Maybe it does something that no one ever thought the Stargate could ever do.

20th February 2001, 07:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,443	Someone? has already suggested this could be a time travel thing. I don't know where I read that. It may have been on these boards somewhere!

21st February 2001, 10:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
muzungu Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: England Posts: 78	In order to map a position four measurements need to be made. You can use cartesian, spherical polar, cylidrical polar etc it doesn't matter very much as long as you can fix in space where it is (eg x,y,z) you also need one time coordinate. Even though only one time coordinate is needed I don't think that the ninth chevron allows the stargate to access other times as its still a constellation glyph. Instead i think that the ninth chevron simply allows you to travel beyond our local cluster of galxies. Another problem with the time travel aspect is that its possible to go forward or backward in time without using the ninth chevron.

21st February 2001, 07:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,443	Having read all that, and understanding most of it!.... I think you are probably right that it doesn't involve time....I only said I had read someone suggesting that! As for the extent of the Stargate system, that depends on who built it. I have a feeling that we may meet the 'Builders' in Season 5,......... ***spoiler******* them being so far from home, they need some way to get back!

23rd February 2001, 04:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,443	It probably would spoil the story if they met some aliens so incredibly advanced that, to us, they had almost magical powers, because as you say, there would be no room for human achievement over insurmountable odds; their problems could all be solved overnight by a wave of the hand. It's just that I can't see a way back without use of some other Technology that they haven't encountered yet. And I'm also conscious of Thor's line about the 'Ancients' going "beyond" or something. But we may just see 'Ancients' technology and not actually the 'Ancients' themselves. We shall find out soon anyway.

24th February 2001, 04:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
jsc God Like Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Los Angeles, California,U.S.A. Posts: 4,352	Having seen the Ancients want to go back in time in Window of Opportunity I am not so sure they would be the all powerful creatures that one envisions. I keep thinking about some of the comments of less technological people when meeting with more technological ones when they find out how things are done. It is surprising how adaptable humans are and what happens when technology is explained. The Ancients are still, I presume, finding challenges. And as long as they are not used as Deus ex machina it wouldn't hurt the series.

12th June 2001, 05:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
muzungu Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: England Posts: 78	Hi Ancients50 right however as the the_Brainz wrote previously the 8th and 9th chevron only increase the number of gates by 1521, so it is probably more likely that they allow access to gate networks in the different clusters rather than superclusters.

6th July 2001, 04:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ancients50 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 3	Sorry i mean't clusters. The way i see it is that within one system of stargates(e.g. Our galaxy's one) each cordinate is fixed(earth's address is the same no matter where you are)But once you start to leave the local system using the 8th and 9th chevron it becomes relative.If you wanted to get to a gate in a system of gates in one direction of you, up for simplicity you'd enter the cordinates for the gate in that network plus a constillation in the direction up. But if you were in a network to the left of that planet's network it's cordinates would be its local cordinates plus a constillation in the direction right. Using this system you could have an infinity number if gate networks accesible by "hopping" through other networks

9th August 2001, 10:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
Shaun R.I.P. Ashes Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 1,798	Here's my theory on it. Maybe it just does nothing, well to the life forms using it, but actually alerts the ancients to the highly developed race. The alien race would have to be very advanced as just using the 8th Chevron requires a lot more energy and the ninth may take an extraodinary amount. This way they could check up on them and make sure they aren't like the Goauld, and if they are intervene.