Pacifism...

[padders]

So he will not fire on the ship. Interesting...

Is pacifism really a coherent belief? Can anyone really go through life not harming another. When does it end? He was prepared to render someone unconscious at one point so what is it, he just can't kill someone? But how did he know that person might not have some allergic reaction to his venom and die? There must be a chance?

I am not so sure about his whole little philosophy now, pacifism is an impossible concept to realise in a world of competing interests and the need for self defense (which it clearly was). I hope he dosen't become the character with the pointless, impractical moral beliefs that just don't hold any water.

[MythingLink]

I tend to think that pacifism is highly over-rated.

Here's my $.02.

It may not be that he is opposed to defending himself, his friends, or his ideals just that he will chose how to do so. He may have made the conscious choice of not using man made weapons, but those that come naturally to him - his venom stuff. The reason for this may be a belief that if whatever god he believes in, gave that to him as a natural offense or defense then he can use them for those purposes, but not to kill the way the rest of his species does.

I actually admire someone who has the conviction of their beliefs and follows through with them. I think the crew of the Andromeda needs someone like him to be their conscious and make them look for other ways besides violence to achieve thier goals. Actually Dylan's desire to rebuild the Commonwealth is more in keeping with what we've seen of Rev's philosophy than anything else.

Cheers,

[padders]

Couple of points on that:

1) God: not sure how much we know about what he belives but questionable i would think about the whole "it is natural thing". What does that really mean i wonder? It is too often used (for my liking) as a reason for not doing X, Y and Z, and for doing A, B and C when really nature does not have any ethical values. Ethical naturalism (philospher people call it) and well it holds for me no credability what so ever. If we accept we evolved (if anyone dosen't then my argument won't appeal to them but then i think you are fundamentally misconceived) then how we turn out biology can not and should not influence what our ethics are, unless you think ethics is wholly subjective (which perhaps it is) but that defeats any god argument.

2) His race use their natural weapons for evil purposes. There are thus two parts to it, not using "other weapons" and not using his own weapons for "bad things". I would guess it is really "bad things" he is working on as opposed to some abritary idea about what type of weapons.

3) Ideals. Nice but sometimes it is a lot easier to say "I will not push the button" especially when you know that the person next to you will anyway. What did his lovely little moral outburst actually achieve - nothing. I am happy to do everything possible to help you go and find the ship, get us in a good situation to destroy it but just at the last minute, sorry, i cannot press the button. This is no high moral standing i am afraid but simple cowardice at having to deal with ones conscience. What does pressing the button actually mean anyway? Is that really the person who kills someone? Is it really the soldiers in a firing squad or the executioner at a capital muder trial who does the killing/murder? i don't think so. My aiding the crew into a situation where they can destroy the ship he is doing far more to kill then just pressing a button to launch the torpedos. I was disappointed by that scene, i don't think they have really thought through this enough. True pacifists would not have gone anywhere near that far (if you can really find a true pacifist anyway).

In the end, violence or the threat of violence is a necessity to keep order if there are others who are prepared to use it against you. A commenwealth with no thread ot using violence will never work. In fact that might jutt be why the old one failed. Why did Rev Bem's race (forgot) not worry about going around killing and eating all the Nietchiens, because like (perhaps the star - trek federation) they knew the commonwealth has ideals and is unlikely to retailiate. They were right and got away with it. Without the threat of violence and the potential use of violence a system will always ultimately be overthrow. Rev Bem's philosophy regarding this so far i don't admire, i see it as interally confused firstly and secondly almost corwardly.

Well there goes my speech! If anyone actually gets down here what do you think!

[MythingLink]

I made it all the way down to the bottom.

One of your lines struck me.

What did his outburst accomplish? You said nothing, but it did. It validated his conviction in his beliefs against not using weapons. He wasn't going to be the one to do it. Okay maybe it was selfish on his part, but one has to be true to ones convictions or what does that make you?

If I say I don't approve of violence and will not resort to violence to settle an argument, yet I do. What does that make me? Not someone who is very honest with myself and someone who is going to have to rethink my beliefs.

Sometimes it is the little thing, like being the one who doesn't push the button, that causes people to think about violent behaviour and how it affects others.

And I know that doesn't make much sense, but it's late and my mind works in mysterious ways.

Cheers,

[padders]

hehe... no i understand what you are saying and agree with it partly.. that sticking to what you believe is important and perhaps what he did was thus right in that sense, what i guess i am saying then is his beliefs are internall contradictory and thus by sticking to them he was achieving nothing but showing he follows contradictory beliefs.

[MythingLink]

Except I don't think we know enough about his beliefs at this point to make any judgement calls. He may have other reasons that haven't been brought out as yet for doing what he did.

It is something to watch to see if it does develop any further from there - giving it more justification or whether your observations are validated.

Some of it might have to do with fundamentalism, too. He might be a tad more liberal in his understanding of his philosophy.

Cheers,

[padders]

yup.. looking forward to see more definitely but I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT TRANCE!!!!

[Asmiley]

Trance is a different thread.....


Interesting comments here on the rev.

Pacifism... Not really an easy thing to do.... Would you ever turn the other cheek when someone slugged you?or would you try slugging that person back? ........hmmmmmmmmmmmm........

[Asmiley]

Trance is a different thread.....


Interesting comments here on the rev.

Pacifism... Not really an easy thing to do.... Would you ever turn the other cheek when someone slugged you?or would you try slugging that person back? ........hmmmmmmmmmmmm........