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Robert Heinlein Don't be a stranger...

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Old 2nd September 2003, 04:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re:STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

SIASL is definately not a woman's book...It "appears" way to sexist for any woman to get past. My wife loved it except for this aspect. I don't think most men find it sexist at all, but sort of a male fantasy fulfillment.
Besides, woman would probably not object had roles been gender reversed (seems they have a double standard also). For the time it was written (1960), he empowered his woman characters far more than other authors of the period.
It's just that most woman I've discussed it with can't get past Jubal's ordering them about.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 07:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re:STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

I think the way to approach the sexism in Stranger is to see it for what it is - a reflection of a past era in American culture. At the time it was written, it reflected gender roles quite accurately, except for - as Gnome mentioned - that Heinlein probably empowered his female characters a little more than was acceptable in the late 50s/early 60s. And, you must remember, that Jubal's "secretaries" talked back to him quite a lot and, as far as I've been able to see in the three or four times I've read the novel, never really did much that they didn't want to do. And that is probably about all you can expect in a novel written by a man before the women's movement really got underway in the public consciousness.
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Old 12th September 2003, 04:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I can't believe that I still haven't got around to reading this. I'm just not in a reading mood at the moment.
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Old 3rd November 2003, 08:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Stranger is my all-time favorite book. But one will find very little to be impressed with in the first two thirds of the book. That first part is all character development and such. It is only in the final third that we get the attempt at a completely objective assessment of the human condition -- and prescriptions for improvement.
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Old 3rd November 2003, 10:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I decided that i should have given my web address: http://home.centurytel.net/rickw/aon.htm
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Old 15th October 2004, 10:49 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GnomeoftheWest
SIASL is definately not a woman's book...It "appears" way to sexist for any woman to get past. My wife loved it except for this aspect. I don't think most men find it sexist at all, but sort of a male fantasy fulfillment.
Besides, woman would probably not object had roles been gender reversed (seems they have a double standard also). For the time it was written (1960), he empowered his woman characters far more than other authors of the period.
It's just that most woman I've discussed it with can't get past Jubal's ordering them about.
I loved the book, and yes you're right about the sexism in it. Although I could see it, it didn't actually bother me. I quite liked the fact that Jubal's 'secutary's actually remember everyting. That's good memory for you!!

And, though I found Gill very annoying, I've read worse books in regards to women.
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Old 15th October 2004, 10:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

WHat prescriptions? Live in a commune, have sex with everyone, use mind control to kill enemies...nope, this book deconstructs a lot of Western cultural beliefs but it is in no way a prescriptive book. As Alexei Panshin pointed out, without the mentla powers posessed by the man from Mars, the philosophy/religion in the book has no validity or applicability.


OK, maybe we all are god, that's about it.
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Old 16th October 2004, 01:33 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GnomeoftheWest
It's just that most woman I've discussed it with can't get past Jubal's ordering them about.
Hmmm... I wonder if these women you've discussed it with remember at the beginning when Jubal got a little too big for his britches, and all of his secretaries ganged up on him and threw him into the swimming pool? Jubal respected his secretaries completely and was utterly devoted to them... remember, he was the only one who could grok without without first being taught by Mike. Anyone who failed to see what Jubals character really was all about just didn't get what Heinlen was trying to purvey. He was a caring father figure, even wiser than Mike, and what made him perfect was that he was oblivous to his own wisdom and selfless love.
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Old 30th November 2004, 11:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

I've read SINASL probably around 10 times, and I never really picked up on the sexism in it until I started reading what people said about it. Jubal Harshaw wasn't sexist- those secretaries were not only his friends, but his employees. Of course you're going to order your employees around! Especially in that era. Besides the point already brought up about how the secretaries were allowed to sass back at him. Any sexism I saw would have been on the part of that stupid Brother in the church that they went to, and even that was more smarmy than sexist. Even the Muslim wasn't really being sexist in my opinion, that was the Muslim views that he was explaining, and living by, and we saw where that got him. I dunno, I tend not to think about political issues when I read, unless they really pop out at me, which maybe is why I don't see it. I prefer to read for pleasure, and for the other, more universal messages in books...

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Old 1st December 2004, 01:52 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

I found the book to be very interesting, but the latter part of it far too preachy and zealous to be very immersive.
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Old 29th July 2005, 04:06 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

Stranger In a Strange Land is my all time favorite book as well, I love the little quirks like how Mike didn't know what laughing was, everyone says it is healthy. I guess that sheds a pretty harsh light on human nature

I did notice however when I read I Will Fear No Evil that his characters were rather the same, the male leads being all gentlemen bordering on lecherous and the females all being perfect and willing. But he is just so creative with his settings and plots, you can't help but admire him for that.
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Old 1st August 2005, 02:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

I read it too long ago to remember a huge amount, but I always loved Jubal's description of what art is! I love art, and am sick of the 'modern' pathetic excuses that are called artistic works, now! ;-) Over-all I'd say I thought it was a good Robert Heinlein book, but not his best.
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Old 19th August 2005, 06:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

There was a reference to television as the,"goddam-noisy-box" that rings true and ever louder as time passes....?.
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Old 14th December 2005, 09:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

I sincerely do not understand how people could call this book the "best"... In the last few weeks I have read some bad books(Star Trek: Unity, The Hobbit) and some great books(Vorkosigan book 1, Song of Fire and Ice book 1, Discworld:Guards Guards! and Mort, Fahrenheit 451)... I just finished Stranger today and after the first 250 pages I had to skim read the rest, which Ihave yet to do with any book to this date. HALF of the book devolved into monologues that lectured you about the philosphical and religious beliefs of the authors... Pure, outright, boring as all hell LECTURING... I read sci fi/fantasy books for great characters combined with a great story... this book dropped the whole story in favor of lectures... Awful awful book. If you want to read the philosophy and religious beliefs of someone from 40+ years ago, this book is for you. If you want a good story with great characters, look ANYWHERE BUT THIS BOOK!
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Old 14th December 2005, 11:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND:

I completely disagree with you, besides the good stuff doesn't start until around the 251st page guess you should go back and finish it, I have never been able to simply abandon a fiction book.
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