Nine-fingered slave boy.

[Mouse]

I've just finished Ship of Destiny and loved it! I just wondered why was Wintrow so important to Amber?!
I thought a lot more was going to happen there than what did. Amber kept going on about a nine fingered slave boy and when she finally found Wintrow she didn't really say anything very interesting!! I though it was going to be a whole lot more important to the dragons and that story but in the end both Malta and Selden had more to do with the dragons. I felt a bit disappointed as I've always liked Wintrow and he sort of got left behind story-wise towards the end.
Also, what was Althea's serpent egg bead all about? I thought that was going to turn out to be something more than it was! Same with Etta's Other's Island baby!

[the_faery_queen]

yeah. i'd agree with that. wintrow didn't appear to do all that much really.

[Talysia]

Reading through this thread made me realise that I actually wondered what happened to Wintrow, too. I must re-read this series.

[Kitera]

Hmm, you got a point there, but Wintrow didn't fail to be one of my favourite characters! You just got to love him.

I don't know about you, but I was a little disappointed when Kennit died.

[ScottSF]

I was disappointed when Kennet died too. I wanted him to suffer a lot more for what he did. But I guess his abuse at the hands of others when he was a child was partly to blame. What I really wanted was for him to be humiliated and all his crew to lose faith in him and him to witness himself go from a legend to a joke. Maybe Hobb's whole point was that some legends were really just some messed up people who just got a few breaks. I would have felt more satisfaction if Wintrow beat and humiliated Kennet and have Wintrow as the legend.

[jackokent]

I thought Kennet was a brilliant character. Really impressed with the way Hobbs made him both despicable and also a little sympathetic. I think he was by far the better legend - after all legends don't have to be nice people they have to be interesting. Wintrow seemed a little bit of a nonentity to me.

I guess Amber was interested in him because of his role and the part he played in the liveships.

[Kitera]

I too wanted much for Wintrow. I wanted Kyle to acknowlegde Wintrow, but too bad he died before that it happened.

[Mouse]

Yeah, I wanted that too Kitera, thought it was going to happen at one point but never did.

[KiwiBird]

Please Wintrow was clearly the Fitz of these series, well a bit less determing in all matters, still he is clealry the changer for most.

It was he who saved that Snake who knew the way/knowledge, it was he with the special connection to the ship, it was he with his connection and influence on kennit and his wife.

[Chrischa]

A very interesting question is what would have happened if Amber had found Wintrow when she was supposed to; at the moment when Wintrow was first brought home and forced to stay on the Vivacia.

Imagine it... Amber as one of Kyle's crew. She would have been in the pirate's attack. What would she have made Wintrow do different? Could she have avoided that the Vivacia was used as a slave-ship and Wintrow tried to escape?
If you look at the Farseer series, the Fool guides Fitz his life in some very important moments and I do wonder what Amber would have done for Wintrow.

[Giovanna Clairval]

[quote]

Originally Posted by jackokent

I thought Kennet was a brilliant character. Really impressed with the way Hobbs made him both despicable and also a little sympathetic. I think he was by far the better legend - after all legends don't have to be nice people they have to be interesting. Wintrow seemed a little bit of a nonentity to me.

I so do agree with jackodent!

ATTENTION, SPOILERS

In fact I believe that, when Kennit died, it was the first time ever, since I was six, that the death of a villain… well… actually… made me… er… cry…

I don’t believe in one-dimension, substantially evil characters. In the real world, besides crazy people like psychopaths, those who look evil have (their) very good reasons to do what they do, these reasons being morally condemnable and unacceptable to you and me... Talking about Kennit again, I was revolted by his raping Althea!!!

But, well, Hobb’s art is to describe Kennit’s last moments as if the villain were a lost little boy coming home at last. This doesn’t excuse him: it just puts things in the good perspective, from a human point of view.

It’s also a lot about pardon and non-judgement. The ship he had blinded, Paragon, takes him back, accepting him without condemnation (which is not usual in Western culture), and with love.

I adore Hobb’s characterisation. It’s easy to make a positive hero look sympathetic. What’s hard is to be capable of depicting a villain in a three-dimensional way.

[the_faery_queen]

i don't think it's hard to make a villian three dimensional, so long as you look at them as people/characters, not villans

kennit for me was never a villian. he wasn't the slaver. he raped althea, but heavens he was messed up already (not that that's an excuse, but he clearly thought she liked him) he wasn't the actual villian. kyle was, to me. chopping off his son's finger, making the boat a slave ship,r efusing to listen to anyone. and ok, ther ewere reasons given for that, and he was realistically done, he never had a chance to come abck changed from what had happened to him. he died, tragically, just to get him out of the way. and that irratated me.

[Rothgar]

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

kyle was, to me. chopping off his son's finger, making the boat a slave ship,r efusing to listen to anyone. and ok, ther ewere reasons given for that, and he was realistically done, he never had a chance to come abck changed from what had happened to him. he died, tragically, just to get him out of the way. and that irratated me.

I agree, it seemed to me Kyle's death was far too tidy, for how complex the complete story is, his death was solved a lot of problems easily. Where even with Kennit's death there were still a lot of unresolved issues, and people had to find a way to work out the solutions for themselves. I think that was one of the points that made the ending as good as it was.

I don't see how Amber could have done anything to change Wintrow's fate through the story. Kyle would have never allowed her on his ship, and she couldn't have stopped him from taking Wintrow. Obviously she ended up where she was meant to be. Maybe the 'white prophets' or 'fools' only have to be within a certain range to change events.

[sassy1]

I liked Wintrow - being taken out of a priesthood life where he obviously fit in perfectly and excelled at everything he had to do and forced to become a ships boy where he didnt fit in or do well at much is one heck of a big change and he still tried to follow what he believed was his true calling - to spread word of God to everyone. At the end I half expected him to go back to his monastery, but he had become too accustomed to being on the ship, and i dont think he could bear to leave Vivacia, even though their bond had changed so much.

I did expect to see more when Amber found her nine-fingered slave boy and that was a bit disappointing, but then i thought maybe it wasnt Wintrow that she needed to see - Wintrow just guided her to where she needed to be, where she had to help push events in the right direction, untangle the threads as it were...

I was disappointed when Kennit died too... i hated him through the start of the series, but when i found out that he had been abused so much, that Paragon was his ship and they were bonded like Wintrow and Vivacia had been, and that paragon had taken the parts of kennit that were harming him, leaving him as a kind of half-person, i felt sorry for him. but at least when he died he was a whole person again and at peace