The Chronicles Network Hall of Fame - Discussion Thread

[Culhwch]

This thread is for discussion of the newly posted Chronicles Network Hall of Fame. If you have any thoughts you wish to discuss about the list, you can do it here, to save the Hall of Fame thread becoming cluttered and messy. So: have at it! And if you haven't already done so, vote here.

[iansales]

Um, notice how most of the fantasy novels are relatively recent, yet the science fiction novels are more than 40 years old? No one can seriously be suggesting that no decent SF has been written since 1969? Perhaps it's just that epic fantasy is a younger, and more popular, sub-genre...

[Thadlerian]

Where it says Gormenghast, is that the book or the series?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by iansales

Um, notice how most of the fantasy novels are relatively recent, yet the science fiction novels are more than 40 years old? No one can seriously be suggesting that no decent SF has been written since 1969?

Well certainly there seems to be a much larger market for fantasy novels than for sci-fi and the majority of the members on here tend to read more fantasy than sci-fi (myself included).

I've certainly enjoyed more recent sci-fi works. David Brin's Uplift series, Anne McCaffrey's Talent series & Crystal Singer series. Ben Bova. Arthur C Clarke.
There's a lot of good authors out there, however Culhwch can only put up what people have nominated and not much sci-fi was so there you go.

And I'm pretty certain it was the novel, not the series Thadlerian.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by iansales

No one can seriously be suggesting that no decent SF has been written since 1969?

I don't think the relative merits of recent versus older SF come into it at all. Remember that Culhwch asked people to list their favorite books, so its more a matter of what people enjoy rather than any value judgements.

More to the point, the membership of these forums tends to be heavily tilted toward Fantasy readers. You can't like what you don't read, and I suspect a lot of people here are not particularly inclined to pick up a work of SF unless someone tells them it's a classic, worth their attention.

[iansales]

I wasn't seriously suggesting it either. But I do find it dismaying when people are forever recommending old (classic) science fiction, and ignoring the more recent stuff. It almost makes you want to go all PC and rant about Dead White European Males :-)

[Shoegaze99]

Originally Posted by iansales

I wasn't seriously suggesting it either. But I do find it dismaying when people are forever recommending old (classic) science fiction, and ignoring the more recent stuff.

But it makes perfect sense, as one is better able to assess something’s overall quality and long-term merit through the clear lens of hindsight. No doubt a great many so-called “modern classics” won’t be considered such just two, three, four and five decades down the road.


Also take into consideration that while fantasy literature and storytelling has been with us as long as stories have been told, “modern” fantasy – which is for the most part what we’re seeing on that list – is relatively younger than science fiction. It is only in the last decade going through the kind of growth cycle science fiction experienced decades ago. By the time Tolkien and his peers came around and pointed the way for modern fantasy, science fiction had already had its founding fathers, its pulp era, its push into a degree of mainstream recognition (through movies and comics), and its artistic growth (through 60s authors like Philip K. Dick, among others). Modern fantasy is still right in the middle of that cycle, with new landmarks being created right now as we speak. Meanwhile, science fiction went through that cycle decades ago, hence its landmark works are from decades ago. Plenty of good new stuff out there, but little that has changed the face of science fiction or put itself forward as something ready to stand the test of time.


Personally, I’m of the opinion that Martin’s story is too recent to be considered for a “Hall Of Fame” type thing, despite being a big fan of the series. There simply hasn’t been enough time to assess its worth in the grand scheme of things.

('Course, in all fairness, the first post in the HoF thread specifies "favorite," so, sure, anything goes in that respect. That makes it a top 10 to me, not a Hall Of Fame, but that's a semantics quibble more than anything. Favorites lists are cool.)

[iansales]

Nope. Don't believe it. People were choosing fantasy novels published in the last couple of years as favourites... but no science fiction from the same period got a look-in. Having said that, I'm surprised no media tie-ins made it onto the list--which by your argument is the only SF that should have done.

Oh, and if you think there's little that's changed the face of SF in recent years... look again. Modern SF bears little resemblance to the old stuff (I'm talking about the "good stuff" of recent years, of course :-)).

[j. d. worthington]

On Gormenghast:

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

And I'm pretty certain it was the novel, not the series Thadlerian.

In my case, it was the set, as it has been published in an omnibus volume, and the first post allowed for such things....

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by Shoegaze99

Personally, I’m of the opinion that Martin’s story is too recent to be considered for a “Hall Of Fame” type thing, despite being a big fan of the series. There simply hasn’t been enough time to assess its worth in the grand scheme of things.

('Course, in all fairness, the first post in the HoF thread specifies "favorite," so, sure, anything goes in that respect. That makes it a top 10 to me, not a Hall Of Fame, but that's a semantics quibble more than anything. Favorites lists are cool.)

Well, in truth, it's not just a Hall of Fame. It's a Chronicles Network Hall of Fame. My intention was to compile a list of the books that Chroniclers love, laud, value, treasure, deify..... I think the use of the term Hall of Fame in this instance and with the preceeding qualification was justified.

Gormenghast is the book, not the trilogy. Others voted for the omnibus edition, and for Titus Groan, and those votes will be compiled in the series list.

Soon to come will be lists divided into genres, series, authors, and perhaps one-point wonders....

[Brown Rat]

Originally Posted by iansales

Nope. Don't believe it. People were choosing fantasy novels published in the last couple of years as favourites... but no science fiction from the same period got a look-in.

Iansales, that's not true. I included recent science fiction on my list of favorites.

I console myself with the notion that those of us who mentioned recent science fiction named different recent books as favorites, so those one-vote books didn't make the multiple-vote list.

As Teresa mentioned, most of the people on this board read more fantasy than SF. Reading fewer SF books means a person is less likely to find a favorite book that is SF. The poll accurately reflects the majority of voters' preference for (or acquaintance with) fantasy.

I gotta admit, I really wish more of you read more SF, so I could talk to more of you about it. But that's just 'cause I like talking to you all.

[Shoegaze99]

Originally Posted by iansales

I'm surprised no media tie-ins made it onto the list--which by your argument is the only SF that should have done.

Ummmmm ... what?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Shoegaze99

Ummmmm ... what?

I must agree: Where did that come from???

[GOLLUM]

I'll add my Huh? too..

LOTR, although I didn't vote for it, comes as no real surprise but Martin and Erikson currently tied for third place kinda makes you wonder if the organiser didn't plan it this way in order to avoid potential bloodletting.....

3 of my top 10 made it in, so I suppose one can't be too unhappy....

A breakdown of top 10 SF and Fantasy lists as Cullwch indicates is on the horizon would be interesting.

[Brys]

It was good to see Gormenghast get a decent position, and Martin and Erikson did pretty well. Lots of my favourites were in there. I don't find LotR as number 1 particularly surprising, I have to admit.

@Ian - I can't exactly vote for modern science fiction until I've read some, and some of the older SF is truly excellent. I'm not going to vote for Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon over William Gibson's Neuromancer, so while I'm catching up on SF this will remain the case. (Anyway, my list was mainly fantasy, reflecting my reading preference - and I did vote for Never Let Me Go a science fiction novel of 2005)
As for the media tie-ins - to echo everyone else - what?