Selling to publishers...

[Teresa Edgerton]

The marketing wouldn't be any different than for any other series of books. In fact, this sort of thing happens all the time. I know several successful writers who have, on realizing that they have two books worth of material, divided what was originally conceived as a single story into two parts.

Originally Posted by KID A

As for the reaccurring suggestion of intense editing, while it is an understandable option for many, I really feel that every page is important to the overall story, and that if I was to drop any large number of pages it would only destroy that sense of depth and realism I have spent so many years trying to create. It is an epic fantasy, and there will be those who'll refrain from buying it due to its size, yet it is what it is and I'd sooner cut my arm off than throw half of the book away due to its size. It's not a fast-paced, action-packed novel, yet it reaches its due climax and keeps the reader occupied with smaller side-stories and unanswered mysteries, and maintains a fairly smooth pace that - to any accomplished reader - is neither tedious nor hasty, remaining (hopefully) entertaining while simultaneously delivering the required amount of realism and detail.

You don't say who else has seen this book. If you've shown it to a number of other people (people who don't have any emotional investment in you or your book) and they all agree with everything you've said above, then I, who have not read a single page, am certainly not going to say that they are wrong.

But if all this is merely your personal assessment of the book, then you may need to go out and get some critiques. A writer's group with a good mix of new writers, professional writers, and aspiring writers who know the ropes, would be ideal. Quite simply, you are not the best person to pass judgement on all aspects of your own writing. Of course you love every sentence, every paragraph, every page -- that's why you wrote them the way that you did.

It's interesting that you compare what you are doing to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. If you travel around the internet and drop into a lot of conversations, you will discover that many of his fans are growing increasingly disillusioned and dissatisfied with the interminable length of that series. Other readers are beginning to tire of over-extended stories by popular authors, too. So there could be a backlash coming. Authors who have already hooked readers would still do well, because many of those readers would keep coming back out of sheer curiosity to find out how it all comes out. New writers could bear the brunt of the backlash. It's difficult to tell by what we see on the bookshelves now, because for the most part publishers bought those books 18 months ago -- and, of course, if you sold your book tomorrow, it probably wouldn't be in bookstores for another 18-24 months. For a writer to judge the possible success or failure of his or her own book by what is selling at the moment is an exercise in futility -- even publishing insiders don't always know (although they are, of course, paid to make educated guesses). So you have to write the book that will sell on its own merits, not count on tapping into a market that may have gone stale.

As for intense editing by striking out whole pages or chapters -- that might not be necessary. You can cut out a lot by snipping a word or two here, a couple of sentences there. If you were to remove even ten words a page (cutting out unnecessary modifiers, substituting active verbs for verb/adverb combinations, using the occasional semi-colon to link two phrases instead of "and," and so forth) that would come to well over 10,000 words right there. Once you started doing that, you would undoubtedly find other things that could go as well.

Again, a good critique group could help you find ways to do this without sacrificing anything of value. They could point out redundancies, suggest options that may not have occurred to you, and a great deal more.

[LauraJUnderwood]

The first novel I sold was probably about 145,000 in the first draft. However, I did not sell it at that length. I actually trimmed it down to 92,000 words or there about before I found a house to publish it.

My second novel was written to about 80,000 and was published first as an ebook, then later reprinted along with a novella and a novelette from the same world in a single volume by my first publisher.

My third novel (DRAGON'S TONGUE, recently released) was intended to be a "fat fantasy" in one volume, but I hit about 150,000 and realized that even though I had "solved" the problem in the first book, I had left a few loose ends that ended up becoming the subject of book two (WANDERING LARK, due out next summer), which ended up being around 150,000 too.

As Teresa says, the physical aspect of so large a book is going to determine marketability. Publishers used to want really fat fantasies, and now with the cost of production, they are looking at smaller works. My fat fantasy just lucked into being what the publisher wanted at that point in time.

My fifth novel, THE HOUNDS OF ARDAGH (coming out this September) was only about 75,000 words. My sixth novel was a mystery collaboration (coming out next year) that was more like 90,000 words. My seventh is actually a short novel of about 54,000 coming out probably in the latter part of next year.

I guess the bottom line here is you can sell a book, but the shorter ones are going to have the advantage for financial reasons.

Laura J. Underwood
Author of DRAGON'S TONGUE

[KSeriphyn]

Originally Posted by Doctor Sax

John will certainly be able to give you a clearer idea of what first time authors are getting in advances these days, but I fear the answer will be rather depressing and he'll advise you to either not give up the day job - or get one, quick.

I'd believe that. From the advice I've read and received, book publishing is a very cut throat business. Similar to the acting or music industry, if you haven't got "the package" (polished manuscript, catchy story, even readership etc) they're not interested.

That's why I publish my stories on blogger. Got to put them some where.



KSeriphyn

[Monkey Man]

I submitted a manuscript, and was called two weeks later with an offer of £500,000 for book one, and £350,000 for book two. I was amazed, especially as the movie rights were sold for £1 mill - hold it, that didn't happen....

What actually happened is, that I posted a manuscript (professionally submitted as per guidelines) on Monday, only for it to be posted back to me one day later...they must have taken it from one envelope and put it into mine as soon as they recieved it....with a standard "cheers, but waaaay busy, but good luck, moron" letter....I have spoken to other people who have had the same response....fact is, the slush pile is a mountain and new writers are pretty much screwed....

You have an agent looking at your work?....well done....Writers I know can't even get an agent to read the first line of their query letter...odds are, if it is bought - less than $10,000 and a whole lot of extra work for it....sigh...why do we put ourselves through this misery??

[John Jarrold]

Basic advances for a first novel range from £4,000 to £25,000 - but most are far nearer the first sum. Very, very occasionally, it will be higher, but think about £4,000 to £7,000 as an average. That's for a UK author selling to a UK publisher. Always remember, 99.9% of authors will never receive an offer, and publishers are not interested in how much you need to live - only in what they feel the book is worth in sales terms.

For a US author who already has a mainstream US deal, it can vary more widely, dependent upon how strongly the US publisher is pushing the book.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Monkey Man

Writers I know can't even get an agent to read the first line of their query letter.

I'm guessing this is a figure of speech. While it's tempting to think that any agent who turns down our work couldn't possibly have gotten past the first sentence, I've never heard of an agent replying, "Sorry, but I couldn't be bothered to read past the first sentence of your query/synopsis/proposal/sample chapters (choose one)."

Since agents do take on new clients from time to time, I think it's safe to assume that query letters are being read.

[SJAB]

£4,000 would not go amiss, nor be unwelcome, but does it sound false to say I didn't start writing for the money. I have never seen writing as a get rich quick method, or even giving a wage of any sort. Any money gained is a big bonus!

I started writing just to see if I could actually do it. Write a whole novel length story from beginning to end. Once I had done it I thought could I actually sell this? And that is how it has gone on. I write, plot and plan stories because I enjoy the challenge of doing so. I try and sell them, because I want to see if I can take it another step on. Might not work out, not sure if I have any talent at all for writing, but it keeps me out of trouble, well most of the time.

If I ever do sell a novel (or two )I intend to enjoy every moment of the adventure.

[John Jarrold]

Ten pages are enough to turn down the majority of submissions for publishers, certainly. Had that conversation with editors in London and New York...

[Mark Robson]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

Basic advances for a first novel range from £4,000 to £25,000 - but most are far nearer the first sum. Very, very occasionally, it will be higher, but think about £4,000 to £7,000 as an average. That's for a UK author selling to a UK publisher. Always remember, 99.9% of authors will never receive an offer, and publishers are not interested in how much you need to live - only in what they feel the book is worth in sales terms.

For a US author who already has a mainstream US deal, it can vary more widely, dependent upon how strongly the US publisher is pushing the book.

Now you've made me feel really good! Let's just say I was towards the top end of that range on my first deal. I didn't appreciate that the average was so low. It's nice to know that the publisher had enough confidence in me to pay well over the average. I shall hold my head a little higher from now on ... and get a hat a half size bigger, of course.

[SJAB]

Originally Posted by Mark Robson

Now you've made me feel really good! Let's just say I was towards the top end of that range on my first deal. I didn't appreciate that the average was so low. It's nice to know that the publisher had enough confidence in me to pay well over the average. I shall hold my head a little higher from now on ... and get a hat a half size bigger, of course.

Mark;

Getting a deal with a mainstream publisher is something to be very proud of, no matter what the fee. It is something so many aspire to,(including me) but very few achieve.

You got there, enjoy every minute of it!

[John Jarrold]

Too right!