Horcruxes. The remaining.

[MJRevell]

I don't know how you can be so adamant that he will indeed die. I believe the actuall quote is:

"I can completely understand, however, the mentality of an author who thinks, 'Well, I'm gonna kill them off because that means there can be no non-author written sequels. So it will end with me and after I'm dead and gone they won't be able to bring back the character'."

But the subject of his possible death is for another thread. Bringing it back to horcruxes, if Harry is a horcrux, it stands to reason that so too is Nagini, because Nagini being a horcrux is some of the biggest evidence to suggest that Harry is a horcrux. Perhaps Voldemort, in his ignorance, made an 8th horcrux, Nagini, before he realised that Harry was one. Perhaps the part of soul in Voldys own body does not count as a horcrux, and Harry and Nagini make up numbers 6 and 7?

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by MJRevell

But the subject of his possible death is for another thread. Bringing it back to horcruxes, if Harry is a horcrux, it stands to reason that so too is Nagini, because Nagini being a horcrux is some of the biggest evidence to suggest that Harry is a horcrux. Perhaps Voldemort, in his ignorance, made an 8th horcrux, Nagini, before he realised that Harry was one. Perhaps the part of soul in Voldys own body does not count as a horcrux, and Harry and Nagini make up numbers 6 and 7?

The body that was animated in GOF is NOT Voldemort's original body. Therefore it, too, is a Horcrux. Remember that when the Avada Kedavra killed his body, his soul was already split in half. One went to --- my guess is ---Harry's scar, another floated elsewhere. It was this last piece that occupied Quirrell in Book 1. It is also this piece that occupied a fetus in Book 4. That fetus became a Horcrux. So the body that Voldemort is actually using now, is also a Horcrux.

I don't think that Nagini has anything to do with Harry when it comes to Horcruxes. I doubt that Nagini is a Horcrux. I think JK threw that in to confuse some of her readers.

Other proofs that Harry's scar could be a Horcrux abound in all 6 books.

BOOK ONE: Everytime he dreams about Voldemort, his scar stings him. I think Voldemort's soul is trying to torment him there. Also, the sorting hat had some trouble sorting him -- why because that hat is designed to choose the house based on the person's trait, which is actually dictated by your soul. Harry had more than one in him.

BOOK TWO: Evident here is the fact that he has the ability to talk to snakes. Again, a trait that even Dumbledore himself said he might have acquired because of that scar.

BOOK THREE:

BOOK FOUR: He could see things that were happening to Voldemort in a dream. I think it was more than that. I think that the soul incased in his scar was actually trying to connect to the one inside the fetus. That is why Voldemort can see him and he can see what was happening.

BOOK FIVE: Voldemort was now actually taking possesion of his consciousness here and even went as far as almost controlling his actions. He could see and feel what Voldemort feels - which included hatred towards Dumbledore.

BOOK SIX: The fact that Snape stopped the other death eaters from killing him and saying that he belongs to the Dark Lord can be read two ways: He didn't want Harry dead, or there is something in Harry that the Dark Lord wants first before he kills him.

Oh well, I know, I overread things. I still have to finish re-reading Book three, as you can see, I left it blank. I only read the first and last five chapters of that book.

[Paradox 99]

A point about Book 3 (and after) - maybe against our Horcrux thoughts.
Wouldn't the Marauders' map get confused with who it was looking at? Surely if the sorting hat had its doubts, then the map might also have the same difficulty. If it was able to see Peter Petigrew, mightn't it not also detect Voldemort?

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by Paradox 99

A point about Book 3 (and after) - maybe against our Horcrux thoughts.
Wouldn't the Marauders' map get confused with who it was looking at? Surely if the sorting hat had its doubts, then the map might also have the same difficulty. If it was able to see Peter Petigrew, mightn't it not also detect Voldemort?

Well, he wasn't walking around at all. I mean, the map only sees living beings -- I don't think it sees the ghosts either that wander the castle. Or does it? The soul in Harry's scar can be considered as a ghost.

[MJRevell]

Actually, the body of the new Voldemort is his old body. No, it is not Tom Riddle's body, the young Tom Riddle we have seen in flashbacks, and from the diary - but yes it is Voldemort. Here are some supporting quotes:

"Voldemort had entered the room. His features were not those that Harry had seen emerge from the great stone cauldron almost two years before; they were not as snakelike, the eyes were not yet scarlet the face not yet masklike, and yet he was no longer handsom Tom Riddle. It was as though his features had been burned and blurred; they were waxy and oddly distorted, and the whites of the eyes now had a permanently bloody look, though the pupils were not yet the slits that Harry knew they would become." - HBP 413

IE. He is commiting more murders, and thus his soul is tearing, and he is becoming more and more transformed because of that. The more murders he commits, the more ugly he gets - until he becomes the snake-like Voldy we meet in GoF.

"You helped me return me to my body" - GoF 563

IE. It is not just any body, a brutal, misfigured body that he hasnt been in before. It is his, Lord Voldemort's body, that he has returned to; the body he has had since the last time he was powerful, killing enough people to mangle his soul.. making enough horcrxes to turn him into a monster.

Origionally posted by orionsixwings
The body that was animated in GOF is NOT Voldemort's original body. Therefore it, too, is a Horcrux. Remember that when the Avada Kedavra killed his body, his soul was already split in half. One went to --- my guess is ---Harry's scar, another floated elsewhere. It was this last piece that occupied Quirrell in Book 1. It is also this piece that occupied a fetus in Book 4. That fetus became a Horcrux. So the body that Voldemort is actually using now, is also a Horcrux.

When you cast Avada Kedavra, you don't send bits of soul flying around. There are a lot of people who have cast AK before, and they don't all have horcruxes. When you cast AK, you split your soul. You still need to do another spell, a spell we don't know, to encase it in an item that will conceal it - a horcrux, as Slughorn tells us:

"A horcrux is the word used for an object in which a person has concealed part of their soul. You need to split your soul to make a horcrux. How? The supreme act of evil. By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent on creating a horcrux would use the damage to his advantage: he would encase the torn portion in an item. How? There is a spell, but do not ask me, i don't know it." - Proffessor Slughorn, HBP, chapter: Horcruxes.

This is proof that you need to do a horcrux spell, after committing the murder. If we are to believe that, as Dumbledore said, Voldemort was going to use the very significant death of Harry's as the final tear, the final horcrux to complete his 7, then he would have had to cast the horcrux spell afterwards, to conceal his soul within an item (or possibly Harry). He did not do that, and thus, Harry cannot be a horcrux.

On the other hand, if you are arguing for Harry being a horcrux, Nagini being one is very strong evidence for this. Voldemort can posess Nagini, like we have seen him posess Harry - and all the while, whilst Voldemort is in his actuall body, and not a spirit anymore. It is possible that possession, by a wizard who has a body, is very very unusual, maybe impossible in the wizarding world - which would lead to Dumbledore's famous question "but in essence divided?"

He says this right after the snake attack on Mr Weasley. This, i believe, is proof that Nagini, in this instance, was being possessed by Voldemort. Further proof of this is the fact that Harry saw the dream through the snakes eyes. He can't get into snakes minds like this - but he can get into Voldemorts. Indeed, we have seen him dream of being Voldemort before, seeing from Voldemorts perspective, like he saw from the snakes perspective in OoTP.

If we take it that when Nagini attacked Arthur, it was actually Voldemort, then Voldemort can possess both Nagini and Harry. Because they both contain a portion of his soul? Possibly. It is also possible that Voldemort can simply possess snakes, but i don't know. I think the silver instrument that Dumbledore questioned is a very key scene. It showed a snake, and when he asked the question, it divided into two: Nagini and Voldemort. He concluded that Voldemort possessed the snake, i think. This may also be where he gets evidence to his claim that Nagini is a horcrux.

[Joel007]

The author has the right to do whatever they want, although millions of teenage girls will be most distraught if Harry dies

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by Joel007

The author has the right to do whatever they want, although millions of teenage girls will be most distraught if Harry dies

Yeah...I figured as much. I think this is the real reason why my Horcrux theory is very unpopular.

[MJRevell]

Yah, the author has all the power, and we can only guess, but it is pretty fun to guess. I'm not even female, however. Your theory is not unpopular - many people believe Harry to be a horcrux. I, on the other hand, do not - hence the dispute :P

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by MJRevell

Actually, the body of the new Voldemort is his old body. No, it is not Tom Riddle's body, the young Tom Riddle we have seen in flashbacks, and from the diary - but yes it is Voldemort. Here are some supporting quotes:

One, that is too ridiculous even by Harry Potter standards. Voldemort is not using his own Body - old or young. (lol! sorry I just had to do that!) The reason why the spell to reincarnate him included bone of the father is because he needed some of the DNA from the marrow and the bone itself to regain much of his former physical self. He did not occupy his own baby body. It was the body of another child that he occupied. It is actually one of the spells in Harry Potter that is close to real sorcery.

Originally Posted by MJRevell

When you cast Avada Kedavra, you don't send bits of soul flying around.

ahhh...I think we agree on this point.

Originally Posted by MJRevell

This is proof that you need to do a horcrux spell, after committing the murder.

Has slughorn actually done this? I doubt it. So his account of the entire Horcrux thing may be a bit befuddled. The sequence to making a Horcrux is not clearly stated in HBP, so for all we know both of us could be wrong on this account. So in this regard, I will temporary hold my tongue until next year when Rowling proves you wrong

Originally Posted by MJRevell

If we are to believe that, as Dumbledore said, Voldemort was going to use the very significant death of Harry's as the final tear, the final horcrux to complete his 7, then he would have had to cast the horcrux spell afterwards, to conceal his soul within an item (or possibly Harry). He did not do that, and thus, Harry cannot be a horcrux.

You still don't get it? My gawd! How many times must I explain this? I never said that Harry was a Horcrux! Why do you keep going back to that? And I never claimed that he wanted to make Harry a Horcrux?

Originally Posted by MJRevell

On the other hand, if you are arguing for Harry being a horcrux, Nagini being one is very strong evidence for this. Voldemort can posess Nagini, like we have seen him posess Harry - and all the while, whilst Voldemort is in his actuall body, and not a spirit anymore. It is possible that possession, by a wizard who has a body, is very very unusual, maybe impossible in the wizarding world - which would lead to Dumbledore's famous question "but in essence divided?"

He says this right after the snake attack on Mr Weasley. This, i believe, is proof that Nagini, in this instance, was being possessed by Voldemort.

We are all making guesses, so if your guess is nagini, well then good. I don't remember reading him possessing Nagini though. Not the way he possessed Harry. Possession by wizards are only done by dark wizards and only by those who have split souls. This is very dark magic.

That last quote from Dumbledore though is just a hint from JK that Voldemort's soul is divided since it appeared in OotP. It doesn't mean that he knows it is in Nagini.

Originally Posted by MJRevell

Further proof of this is the fact that Harry saw the dream through the snakes eyes. He can't get into snakes minds like this - but he can get into Voldemorts. Indeed, we have seen him dream of being Voldemort before, seeing from Voldemorts perspective, like he saw from the snakes perspective in OoTP.

The idea of Possession may apply here but this doesn't mean that Nagini is a Horcrux, just like Quirrell isn't one.

Originally Posted by MJRevell

If we take it that when Nagini attacked Arthur, it was actually Voldemort, then Voldemort can possess both Nagini and Harry.

Possession is different and in the Harry Potter Universe its a lot more complicated. Because a soul can possess a person (or in this case an animal) and go out of the body as they please. When Voldemort took possession of Quirrell's body, he wasn't in there all the time. He can wander out, but not for long, and he needed the blood of the unicorn to sustain him. And Quirrell, though he was possessed, did not act like Voldemort at all. This may be the same case with nagini.

Harry's possession was different, if possession it could be called, because it reacts as though he's actually part of Harry, feeling the same emotions -- not just an external entity like in the case of Quirrell.

[MJRevell]

Originally Posted by orionsixwings

One, that is too ridiculous even by Harry Potter standards. Voldemort is not using his own Body - old or young. (lol! sorry I just had to do that!) The reason why the spell to reincarnate him included bone of the father is because he needed some of the DNA from the marrow and the bone itself to regain much of his former physical self. He did not occupy his own baby body. It was the body of another child that he occupied. It is actually one of the spells in Harry Potter that is close to real sorcery.

Well, we are all entitled to our own opinions. I am inclined to believe mine here, until you can provide any evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by orionsixwings

You still don't get it? My gawd! How many times must I explain this? I never said that Harry was a Horcrux! Why do you keep going back to that? And I never claimed that he wanted to make Harry a Horcrux?

Actually, yes you said his scar was a horcrux - which in my opinion is the same as saying Harry is one. It's the same argument, it goes hand in hand - and the quotes i provided from Slughorn do just the same to prove otherwise.

You are right, however, in saying Slughorn hasn't done such things before - he could indeed be wrong. I very much doubt it, but it's a possibility, and back we come to the fact that all we are doing is guess

I can see that, as in most Harry is a horcrux cases, the argument will not be settled. Although we are only guessing here, there are supporting quotes in the books that can justify points, so at least we are playing tennis with more than just opinions. Much like my Voldemort is in his old body point above.

[Alia]

Actually, yes you said his scar was a horcrux - which in my opinion is the same as saying Harry is one.

I don't believe this. Harry and his scar I believe are two very seperate things even though the scar is on Harry and hurts Harry from time to time, I believe that the scar can vanish and Harry will live. If that's what happens it's a whole other story and arguement.

Harry and his scar are not one in the same.

[MJRevell]

Sorry, i worded it very badly. I mean to say that, coming from my point of view, the point of view opposing the idea of Harry (or his scar) being a horcrux, they are both in the same box, simply because the counter-argument opposes both ideas in exactly the same way.

[Tsujigiri]

Sorry to everyone...but 'Horcrux' sounds like something that you'd yell when an unpleasant thing happens to your pants when they are 2 sizes too small and you climb over a wall

[Alia]

*blows raspberry at Tsu* Good to see you old friend!

[MJRevell]

Originally Posted by Tsujigiri

Sorry to everyone...but 'Horcrux' sounds like something that you'd yell when an unpleasant thing happens to your pants when they are 2 sizes too small and you climb over a wall

Lol