Horcruxes. The remaining.

[Paradox 99]

Originally Posted by MJRevell

How on earth is it possible for Harry to be a horcrux?.

Looks like you missed some of my previous posts because I already addressed this and the other things you mentioned.

Basically, I don't think Voldemort had any intention of killing Harry at all. I was about to rewrite everything in summary in this post, but it's probably easier if you go back a few steps in this thread.

[MJRevell]

The argument thus far for Harry being a horcrux lacks weight, in my opinion.

Paradox, you question whether Voldy wants Harry killed or not - but if he wants him alive, why would he say this to him:

"I have nothing more to say to you, Potter. You have irked me too often, for too long. AVADA KEDAVRA!"

In my earlier post, i should have specified that we know a specific spell is needed for the creation of a horcrux, but we do not know what it is. It is safe to say, however, that the Avada Kedavra curse is is not it - and that is the spell he casts on Harry as a child. Saying that, we do not know whether you need to cast the horcrux spell before or after killing someone. But that still begs the question: Why would Voldy cast a horcrux spell, then try and kill him?

Something else that opposes the idea of Harry being a horcrux is the fact that Dumbledore didn't even consider it when discussing options with harry in HBP, and how often has Dumbledore been wrong?

I also said earlier that i believe Voldemort was going to make a horcrux after killing Harry, using that murder. I can see, although i consider it a very small possibility, how Voldy could have somehow mistakingly made Harry a horcrux. But even if this is the case, he almost certainly doesn't know about it.

I read one argument on another website that he could possibly discover this alarming piece of news after possessing Harry in the ministry; and thus he gives the order in HBP not to touch him. I have to admit, the fact that Voldemort can leave his body to possess his snake, Nagini (a horcrux), AND leave his body to possess Harry (a horcrux?) suggests that he can inhabit living things that hold part of his soul.

I would still be very surprised if Harry is indeed a horcrux, though.

[Lissa]

I don't see how HP could be a horcrux himself. Voldemort's intent was to kill him not make him a vessel allowing him (Voldie) to come back when killed. He had no idea that the killing curse would backfire, it never had before. The way magic works in the books is very deliberate except for children who are untrained. I think it would also not work out with Harry or Harry's scar being a Horcrux because it has to be destroyed in order for Voldemort to be completely destroyed. Is Ms. Rowling going to kill off Harry to get rid of Voldemort? I seriously doubt it.

[orionsixwings]

Oh My Gawd! Majimaune...from TTF? Goodness gracious!

Alright my take on things...

Given and Destroyed:

The Ring - destroyed by Dumbledore
The Diary - destroyed by Harry

My Theory on what the other Horcruxes are and Why:

Hufflepuff's cup - because according to a pensieve acquired by Dumbledore from a house elf, Tom riddle had to kill someone to get it. Why go to all that trouble?

Slytherin's Locket - again, the source for this is a Pensieve acquired by Dumbledore.

a Ravenclaw item - because Dumbledore said that Voldemort would want to make a an item from each of the founders of Hogwarts into a Horcrux to add to his "grandeur".

a Gryffindor item - look above. Although, I suspect that it may be on a person. I believe Harry's scar is a Horcrux.

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by Lissa

I don't see how HP could be a horcrux himself. Voldemort's intent was to kill him not make him a vessel allowing him (Voldie) to come back when killed. He had no idea that the killing curse would backfire, it never had before. The way magic works in the books is very deliberate except for children who are untrained. I think it would also not work out with Harry or Harry's scar being a Horcrux because it has to be destroyed in order for Voldemort to be completely destroyed. Is Ms. Rowling going to kill off Harry to get rid of Voldemort? I seriously doubt it.

She just confirmed it in her last interview. JK Rowling is going to kill Harry Potter in the last book so that no one may write other books after the 7th. If there's no Harry Potter, there can be no Harry Potter books. So yeah, she is going to kill him.

So it is possible to make Harry's scar a Horcrux. And Harry may have to kill himself to get rid of it.

And as for the reason why it's still possible that Harry could be carrying one of Voldemort's Horcruxes is this: Back up.

Many people have speculated that Harry is a Horcrux, while many rejected the idea saying simply that it is irrational for him to be a Horcrux because Voldemort has been adamant to end his life. Dumbledore said that Voldemort was short of 1 when he went in search of the Potters intending to use Harry's death for the spell necessary to create a Horcrux.

Although HBP made it appear that Dumbledore had so many question marks, I think his take on the Horcruxes are more or less accurate because he had been sitting on this issue since Voldemort disappeared. So considering there really are 7 Horcruxes, how do we justify Harry being one?

first, let's try to analyze what really happened in Godric's Hollow that fateful night.

Voldemort found the Potters at home. He killed James. He then tried to kill Harry, but Lily tricked him into a magical bargain: "My life for harry's!" He agreed. He killed her. Then, thinking he didn't have to honor his contract (or not realizing he had made one), he tried to kill Harry - Now it gets complicated. Voldemort might have already conjured the spell necessary to create a Horcrux intending Harry's death to seal or complete the spell, then something happens and the whole thing got sideswiped BUT the spell to encase a part of soul went through because, technically, the Killing Curse was able to kill someone --- Voldemort's own body!

His body dies, his soul splits in half, one encased in Harry's scar (proof that this is possible would be Quirrell, or Quirrellmort), another, the last division wanders off.

That completes Voldemort's 7 Horcruxes and would even complete his collection from the four founders - Harry might be Godric Gryffindor's heir.

So why is he still trying to do Harry in? Shouldn't Voldemort be taking care of Harry rather than trying to kill him?

The answer to this is very simple - BACK UP! Voldemort has how many Horcruxes? 7, well technically 6 because He is the 7th Horcrux.

Since only two of the 7 have been destroyed, Voldemort can go after Harry without fear because even if Harry dies, he'll still have 3 Horcruxes left. However, if Harry continues to live, the Prophecy which is Voldemort's undoing hangs in the balance, and no Horcrux will save him from that.

He has no choice, it's either one part of his shattered soul or total death. If you were Voldemort, what would you chose?

So must Harry die to get rid of Voldemort? Not necessarily. There is another way to rid Harry's body of Voldemort soul without him dying in the process - THE DEMENTOR'S KISS. Harry needs to be kissed by a Dementor to suck out Voldemort's soul.

[Majimaune]

Originally Posted by orionsixwings

Oh My Gawd! Majimaune...from TTF? Goodness gracious!

Yeah it's me who the hell are you?

You've all got some good points and Harry is NOT A HORCRUX!!!!

That is my final word on that subject and will only discuss what who the horcruxes actually ARE.

Thank you for bringing up the subject of horcruxes again orionsixwings. That was good cause I was getting side-tracked.

This is my thoughts on Harry getting killed.

He and Voldie fight and they both get hit with so many spells each that they have basicly no life left. With his remaining strength Harry stands up and says a spell (not sure what) and kills Voldie. Next thing we know Harry's lying on his back with hardly any life and Ginny comes out of nowhere and hugs Harry. He says a final good bye and dies leaving all his belongings to the Weasleys.

[MJRevell]

I think one of the horcruxes could be the Mirror of Erised. In it's description, we see "two, clawed feet" - despite it not concretely saying it is Ravenclaws, i think we can assume that it is. Voldemort will have seen his hearts desire in it; known it is Ravenclaws, and an item of immense magical power - the two main ingredients we have seen him seek previously. Dumbledore figured out how to hide a stone in it - perhaps Voldy hid some soul in there too? Just an idea.

I would like to see this interview stating that Harry will die. I think it is a possibility that he will die, but there is no doubt in my mind that Voldemort will be vanquished. If Harry needs to kill himself to kill Voldemort, who will finish the Dark Lord? Snape? Wormtail? It would be interesting to see.

Harry's scar cannot be a horcrux: it was not there prior to Voldemorts attempt at killing him; Voldemort cannot have known about the scar when he did/if he did the necessary horcrux spell.

IF Harry is a horcrux, it will be Harry, not the scar.

What i find interesting, is that we have yet to see what happens to a living horcrux when the soul is destroyed. When Harry inevitably destroys Nagine, or the soul in her, will the snake survive? Will this then mean that, IF, Harry is a horcrux, he can remove the soul and survive?

I like that you pointed out the dementors - though i doubt a dementor will kiss Harry. But what if it is a dementor that kisses Voldemort, sucking out the last of his soul fragments?

Either way, i'm inclined to believe Harry is not a horcrux until someone can come up with a convincing argument. Also, i don't think he will die - although that belief will no doubt be squashed if someone can find a link to the interview where JK supposedly tells us he will. If such a thing exists.

"Oh yes, by the way, Harry will die in book 7. Have fun, now kids!" :P

[Paradox 99]

There's no need to yell Majimaune!
We know what you think. However, I don't see how you can be so definitive about it. It's still under debate.

Originally Posted by MJRevell

I have nothing more to say to you, Potter. You have irked me too often, for too long. AVADA KEDAVRA!"

Remind me, at where exactly did Volde say this? It's a while since I've read some of the books.

But as for the actual question:

Paradox, you question whether Voldy wants Harry killed or not - but if he wants him alive, why would he say this to him:

I'd already mentioned before that Voldemort would have to maintain a very strong deception to everyone that he wanted Harry dead because of the prophecy - however, in reality, he very much wanted to keep him alive.
Depending on the circumstances surrounding the Avada Kedavra spell, perhaps he was able to prevent it from having the usual effect - after all, if it's easy enough for students to screw up spells even when saying them correctly, then it's probably just as easy for volde to do something similar deliberately. Perhaps he had his fingers crossed.

Alternatively, perhaps Harry has become too dangerous to him and he decided that this was one Horcrux he could do without.

[Joel007]

Harry as a horcrux wouldn't work, as Voldemort would have to have deliberately done it, and he killed himself trying to kill harry.
Horcruxes can't be made accidentally, if they were, there would be a lot more of them...

[MJRevell]

*Spoiler warning for any who have not yet read the 5th book*


The quote occurs in Order of the Phoenix, in the chapter "The only one he ever feared".

Harry has just destroyed the prophecy, and Volde is enraged. It is just as Dumbledore leaps in to save the day with the moving gold statues.

[Barristan]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone else notice in GOF, when Harrys parents came out of Voldes Wand, it was the wrong way round! Lily was supposed to have died last, yet its James who emerges first. This indicates that it must be significant in what order they died.

2nd, Harry is no horcrux! No way, not ever!

[Alia]

2nd, Harry is no horcrux! No way, not ever!

I say it's not Harry but rather the scar!

And I didn't notice that about the Lilly and James... I'll have to check that out.

[chump]

Originally Posted by Barristan

Slightly off topic, but did anyone else notice in GOF, when Harrys parents came out of Voldes Wand, it was the wrong way round! Lily was supposed to have died last, yet its James who emerges first. This indicates that it must be significant in what order they died.

2nd, Harry is no horcrux! No way, not ever!

I noticed that as well but I just assumed it was a mistake but it could have some sort of significance.

[MJRevell]

It's a mistake - it has been taken out of recent versions; i think only the people who got the first publications will see that curious incident.

[Paradox 99]

Originally Posted by MJRevell

It's a mistake - it has been taken out of recent versions; i think only the people who got the first publications will see that curious incident.

Hehe, there's a problem. That isn't the only slip up.
I still think Harry or the scar is the horcrux - it just fits in too well with the story overall and JKR's plans for the last book.
Though I love orionsixwing's idea, I think that the details might be even more than JKR had thought of! Any elaborate theories we come up with could be flawed simply because the author slipped up somewhere along the way in the plot.

I'm in awe that the same old reason keeps coming up time and again as to why it can't be true about HP being a Horcrux (or his scar). Namely that:

a) The events at Godric's hollow weren't planned by Voldemort and went wrong resulting in his own death.
- we don't have any living witnesses about what happened there - only Voldemort - and he's a liar. The people that come out of the wand give no indication of what actually happened either. We know what Voledmort said he planned to do, but that means squat. His own death may well have been an accident, but we that doesn't mean he didn't succeed in what he set out to do.
b) Voldemort wants Harry dead.
He was expected to want to kill Harry because of the prophecy, so he had to make it look that way. If he made it obvious that he needed HP alive, it would be extremely suspicious - people would soon have worked it out. It would be the ultimate egotistical stunt to turn the object of your demise into the object that keeps you secure. Basically, he spat in the face of prophecy by killing Harry's parents specifically to use the living Harry Potter as the vehicle for his own soul. That's why Harry shares so many of Voldemort's attributes. But the message of HP all along is that it's your decisions that make you good or bad, not your attributes.

The bit from OOTP could go to demonstrate that Voldemort does actually think the HP is a bit too dangerous now and has changed his plans.