Does Self Publishing help or hinder?

[the_faery_queen]

have you not thought about small print publishers outside of australia? with the internet as it is, there is no reason you have to have an agent, or just stick with those in your country. my small print publisher is american.

but, of course, the problem with that is, they're not available neccessarily in your own country. im lucky that mine has now got uk distrubution, so i can do book signing events and so on, and sell copies to my friends. otherwise i'd have been unable to with the shipping cost from the us. but for me, small print was the way to go. i don't think i could ever afford pod, and i still have my issues with it, to some extent. i guess im insecure and need convincing by someone else, a publisher, that the novel is good enough

[Mark Robson]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

Mark

I'd have thought it was time for you to approach mainstream children's and YA publishers again...if you want a chat, contact me off forum and I'll make some suggestions.

John, I'm currently writing for Simon & Schuster. I've just completed the second novel in a two book deal - they've just made an offer on a third and are preparing to offer on a further four book series (my agent tells me we should hear on Monday next week). The original question was more for interest's sake, to see what your opinions were on the whole self publishing issue. Opinions seem to be very widely split amongst the Literary Agent community.

[John Jarrold]

Quite right, Andrew. Authors will find different ways through, which suit them individually. It's certainly not true that there is no market for YA fantasy in the UK or US, so I don't see why that should be true in Australia, but it is still true that probably 1000 typescripts will be turned down by publishers and agents for every one that is taken on...good luck!

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Mark Robson

John, I'm currently writing for Simon & Schuster. I've just completed the second novel in a two book deal - they've just made an offer on a third and are preparing to offer on a further four book series (my agent tells me we should hear on Monday next week). The original question was more for interest's sake, to see what your opinions were on the whole self publishing issue. Opinions seem to be very widely split amongst the Literary Agent community.

I suspect attitudes are still changing, Mark. Good to hear that things are going well with S&S.

[SJAB]

Originally Posted by Andrew Borg

Hi,

I'm not sure what the situation is like in your part of the world, but in order to publish a book in my own country (Australia) self-publishing (POD) actually became the only option for me.

Having approached several literary agents, I was informed that although my manuscript sample chapters were well-written and interesting, there was no market (for emerging authors) for the sort of story I had on offer (YA Fantasy). Now I'm not sure whether that was just a standard line to "ease the pain" of rejection, and perhaps it was, but I was also advised that "looking overseas" was potentially a more suitable and viable option.

Ultimately, I decided that publishing via POD was my "means to an end", allowing me to produce my book here in Oz. Whilst I still dream of publication through a mainstream publisher, I am fully aware that I have to put in the groundwork first - serving an apprenticeship, I suppose - before trying again, and in doing so, preparing for more rejection.

I don't know whether being POD-published will adversely affect my long-term aspirations, but I suppose this is all part of the literary ride!

cheers,

Andrew

Might I ask which Oz POD publisher you used? Understand if you don't want to say.

[Andrew Borg]

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

have you not thought about small print publishers outside of australia? with the internet as it is, there is no reason you have to have an agent, or just stick with those in your country. my small print publisher is american.

but, of course, the problem with that is, they're not available neccessarily in your own country. im lucky that mine has now got uk distrubution, so i can do book signing events and so on, and sell copies to my friends. otherwise i'd have been unable to with the shipping cost from the us. but for me, small print was the way to go. i don't think i could ever afford pod, and i still have my issues with it, to some extent. i guess im insecure and need convincing by someone else, a publisher, that the novel is good enough

Hi,

I did think about looking overseas, but in the end I decided that even if I was successful in finding a publisher, I would still have problems with regard to "local" distribution. The import costs to get my novel into this country may have been a real factor, and to be honest I had no idea where to start looking overseas! Additionally, and mainly due to a "lack of self-confidence", I really didn't want to continue to search for someone who was interested in my work, only to receive rejections months later. I only decided to pursue POD publishing when I received comments from people in online forums, etc, who I must admit I didn't personally know, urging me to seek publication.

Given that my primary aim was always to get the book published for my children (it was written for them), I decided that POD publishing provided a better option than self-publishing. The costs were much less ($A350) and the company took care of all the ISBN registrations, advertising in book buyer guides and SFF magazines, and everything else that I would have had to pay for anyway, as well as copies of the book.

While the contract is in place for two years, I still retain all rights to seek mainstream publishing, etc. So if I do decide to continue to pursue that course of action, then it remains a valid option.

cheers,

Andrew

[Andrew Borg]

Originally Posted by SJAB

Might I ask which Oz POD publisher you used? Understand if you don't want to say.

Hi,

That's cool. I'm still trying to figure out what I can and can't say on this forum - I'm a newbie and don't want to be seen to be self promoting/advertising! But given that you asked, the publisher is Equilibrium Books.

cheers,

Andrew

[Crisspin]

I think it is important to differentiate between self-publishing and vanity press.

Self-publishing can be a viable way to get work out into the public eye, but it requires significantly more effort and money for such a work to be succesful. The authors who have self-published often have either significant name recognition through small-press or have invested their own money in promoting their material. Self-publishing is where you are responsible for every aspect of the books publication, from editing, typecase and cover to printing, distribution and promotion.

Vanity Press on the other hand is a place where you simply pay a fee and they print your book. These companies are most often shunned by any bookstore. Editors will also look down on any writer who has published through a Vanity Press, viewing that writer as an amateur.

From Scott Edelstien's 100 Things Every Writer Needs to Know he suggests "Like bookstore owners, editors know which presses do vanity publishing. If they learn that you've published a book with a vanity house, they're not only not going to be impressed, they'll probably consider you a naive, self-indulgent rube. (So if you've already published a book with a vanity press, don't tell anyone in the media)."

[Brown Rat]

So perceived effort counts in a self-published author's favor and against an author who's gone with a vanity-press? How protestant.

But that's cool, because it means I'm not automatically sunk for self-publishing with Lulu.com .

[MJRevell]

I have just been investigating one self-publishing site, and it sounds very good. From what they say, it is entirely free: they make their money through a small royalty on each sale.

My question, therefore, if you can get your book published by such a site for free, and can make a nice royalty from each sale... why is this method frowned upon? Excuse my ignorance - but surely the royalties are greater doing this than traditional print? And further, if you market it well, is it not possible to make a fair profit? It may be a 'hobby', but in the end, if it is free, you're not losing money.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Is it POD? Because otherwise I don't see how it could be self-publishing and free. Someone has to pay for the paper and ink, and if not you then it would be the publishing house -- therefore not really self-published.

If it's POD, well, there are advantages and disadvantages to that. People aren't going to be able to go into a bookstore and find your book sitting there on the shelf, which cuts down on your sales right there.

Also, a lot of people get into self-publishing and POD thinking that marketing is going to be relatively easy. This is not true. Successful self-published authors work very, very hard at promoting their books. If you don't have the time, the energy, or the talent to turn yourself into a super-salesperson, there is no way you are going to make a fair profit.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Brown Rat

So perceived effort counts in a self-published author's favor and against an author who's gone with a vanity-press? How protestant.

To be honest, I think sales are the key issue - no matter what the format chosen, if you can sell a ton of books, you've proved your commercial worth.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by MJRevell

My question, therefore, if you can get your book published by such a site for free, and can make a nice royalty from each sale... why is this method frowned upon? Excuse my ignorance - but surely the royalties are greater doing this than traditional print? And further, if you market it well, is it not possible to make a fair profit? It may be a 'hobby', but in the end, if it is free, you're not losing money.

Royalties may be greater - but usually there's no marketing dept to promote your work in national markets.

So the higher royalty is offset by a much lower volume of sales.

[LauraJUnderwood]

Depends on which "free" publisher you're talking about. Lulu.com doesn't charge a penny, lets you set the amount of royalty you want per book. They use PoD technology to print the books. You can order your own books for cost of printing and the more you order, the bigger your discount.

Lulu offers different options. The bottom line costs you nothing. But if you want an ISBN so you can get listed by Ingrams, the cost goes up to around $135.00.

SFWA used Lulu to publish ATLANTA NIGHTS, which was the novel we used to sting a certain "vanity press" pretending to be a legitimate publisher. (And yes, I will confess, I am 1/40th of Travis Tea, author of said ATLANTA NIGHTS, the book so bad it could Poke Out The Eye Of Argon any day...).

However, if you are talking about PublishAmerica (or its British counterpart) run away as fast as you can. Too much Bad Mojo there. They give you $1.00 as an advance, then convince you to purchase your own books at a pitiful discount. They overcharge the cover price, never get your books into bookstores, and in general, are just Not Worth Your Time.

Can self-publishing hurt your career? It just depends. A good author will find a market for their work if they are patient and persistent.

I have a friend, Jana Oliver, who self-published her first trilogy, and has since sold a novel (SOJOURN described as time travel, werewolves and Jack the Ripper) to a small press, and Meisha Merlin is looking at reprinting her early self-published work.

Vanity can most certainly hurt your career because of the stigma attached to it.

But if you are willing to go the whole nine yards, make sure your work is edited well, and have the wherewithal to do all the PR and the pushing, yes, you can get somewhere self publishing.

But remember, Editors Have A Purpose.

As pretty as some of us think we can write, we can always used a little editorial advice. ;-)

Laura J. Underwood
Author of DRAGON'S TONGUE

[Brown Rat]

Originally Posted by LauraJUnderwood

But remember, Editors Have A Purpose.

As pretty as some of us think we can write, we can always use a little editorial advice. ;-)

Too true, Laura. The lack of an in-house editor is what I'm most nervous about in self-publishing one of my novels. Even though the novel has been workshopped by several different groups, and even though I've gone over it applying what I've learned as a writing teacher and as a copyeditor, I know, absolutely, in my heart of hearts, that an in-house editor would be invaluable.