What would you like to see in Firefly?

[scottevill]

Originally Posted by Brown Rat

Scottevill, I like your suggestion of combining the "learn more about Book's past" and "gain a nemsis for River" plots. Would River's nemesis be medically engineered in much the same way she was? And might Book have had some role in setting up that program in the first place, or opposing that program and thus leaving civil service?

Yes, if River was their best student/subject, I'd imagine her "nemesis" would have to be their new star pupil. Or maybe their old one -- A prototype/mentor figure? Something like that.

With Book, whatever happened, the broad strokes are the same as what we saw with The Operative: he finally undertook a mission that shook, and ultimately broke, his faith in the Alliance, after which he sought redemption. Back during the series, I assumed it had something to do with the war, but in the context of a movie, it would (IMO) be better if there was a more direct connection between what happened with Book and what happened with River.

Maybe he was tasked to put down the last escapee? (Or is that too Dark Angel?)

[Whitestar]

Originally Posted by scottevill

These two elements--a nemesis for River, and an exploration of Book's past--could work together nicely. And maybe this "new character" wouldn't have to be *new* at all: maybe The Operative knew Book.

If the broad outline of the plot is "the alliance strikes back," that would naturally bring The Operative back in to play whether he knew Book or not (since he warned Mal that this might happen at the end of Serenity). He could end up joining the crew -- essentially replacing Book as the crewmember with the shady past seeking redemption. Only, in an important opposition with Book, he'd be hated and distrusted by everyone. They'd have to need him more than want him (the opposite of the Book status quo).

Scottevill, I love your idea of the Operative becoming a member of the Serenity crew. Despite his shady past, I could see him becoming a MAJOR asset to the crew with his forminable skills. Plus, unlike in Book's apparently shady past, we will get a first-hand opportunity of witnessing the Operative's road to redemption. Shiny!

[Delvo]

That would make some of the crew start to get redundant to each other...

[Steve Jordan]

After the Operative's involvement with Serenity's troubles, vis a vis, their being forced to battle through Reavers to beat him, and oh yeah, getting Wash killed in the process, I have very little doubt that the Opeative would simply not be allowed on that ship, as passenger or crew. I certainly can't see Mal or Zoe accepting him, no matter how "redemptive" he was. (Heck, Zoe would probably slit his throat while he slept.)

I could see him going independent, if he (like Book) lost faith in the Alliance. As an independent, he might be in a position to help Serenity on occasion, occasionally crossing paths with them, maybe cleaning up messes/covering tracks behind them, and even quietly shadowing them and becoming their guardian angel.

[Whitestar]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

After the Operative's involvement with Serenity's troubles, vis a vis, their being forced to battle through Reavers to beat him, and oh yeah, getting Wash killed in the process, I have very little doubt that the Opeative would simply not be allowed on that ship, as passenger or crew. I certainly can't see Mal or Zoe accepting him, no matter how "redemptive" he was. (Heck, Zoe would probably slit his throat while he slept.)

I could see him going independent, if he (like Book) lost faith in the Alliance. As an independent, he might be in a position to help Serenity on occasion, occasionally crossing paths with them, maybe cleaning up messes/covering tracks behind them, and even quietly shadowing them and becoming their guardian angel.

You raised an interesting point, Steve Jordan. I too, think that Mal and Zoe would most probably never accept the Operative as a member of the crew, after what he's done. Still, it would certainly make it interesting from a storytelling point-of-view. But let's also keep in mind that Book's past was apparently shady and was most likely an operative himself at one point in his life. In addition, we never knew what kinds of atrocities he's committed in his prime and if the crew of Serenity knew about this beforehand, they most likely wouldn't have taken him aboard in the first place. And even if the Operative never becomes a member of the crew, I would like to see him again, perhaps forming an uneasy partnership against the Alliance. Maybe we will see this in a novel fully authorized by Whedon himself someday.

[scottevill]

I agree that none of them would take The Operative on board willingly even for five minutes. It would have to be out of dire need, and even then, it would not make for a happy ship. It would, however, be an *interesting* ship--and that's way more important to me, dramtically speaking, than "happy."

And it's not hard to see where the "dire need" would come from, with the suggestion at the end of the movie that the Alliance would be coming after them. Of course, the "them" could well include The Operative, since he not onliy failed in his mission, but actively betrayed The Alliance by letting Serenity, and River, go--and even paying to have the ship fixed up.

And Whitestar is correct in noting that, had the crew known of Book's past, they certainly would've put him off the ship--even if it meant sacrificing the advantages his presence offered them. And that would've been a mistake -- a mistake that would've resulted in their deaths several times over.

If the sequel plot delved into Book's past (which is pretty close to a given, IMO), that knowledge would weigh in their decision on whether to offer sanctuary to The Operative (who, by that time, would've made himself even more necessary to their survival than he was at the end of the first picture).

Zoe, I think, would be the most opposed to it -- for obvious reasons. And it could be the kind of situation where Mal's order wouldn't cut it. She might decide to leave over it only to be persuaded in the end to stay based simply on the fact that she's more likely to *survive* by remaining.

Which doesn't mean she won't try to kill him in the night -- or in a proper fight (how kick-ass would *that* be? Zoe vs The Operative?) But, again, it would be *interesting*.

[Brown Rat]

Originally Posted by scottevill

Which doesn't mean she won't try to kill him in the night -- or in a proper fight (how kick-ass would *that* be? Zoe vs The Operative?)

That would be something to see. Bloody. And explosive.

[Steve Jordan]

Of course, we're making a lot of assumptions about Book's past, and maybe we shouldn't... he may have been Alliance, or simply in a legitimate profession, but not necessarily equal to an Operative. In fact I doubt he was an assassin or operative, considering how quickly and easily Jubal Early took him out. And although it was Early who said, "He's not a preacher," and we know his identity gives him a status respected within the Alliance, we do not know what he did.

Mal and the crew may not have known what Book was in the past, but that past may not have been so heinous that they would never have accepted him had they known. It may simply have been a very personal loss or shame that Book himself refused to share.

[scottevill]

He knew Niska -- suggesting he'd had dealings with some very bad people. He knew the works of Shang Yu -- suggesting he'd tortured people.

He could fight, he had a facility with weapons. He was a skilled tactician.

Even minus the bit where the Alliance freaked out to get him the best medical attention after seeing his ID (which was very similar to the Academy honcho's reaction to The Operative upon seeing *his* ID), it still all adds up to the same thing: he worked for the Alliance, at a very high level -- very bloody -- level.

Something happened that broke his faith in The Alliance, so he found himself something new to believe in, and sought redemption. Sometime later, he set sail on Serenity -- at the same time River did.

Is that coincidence? He *did* arrive before River & Simon, but still, I tend to doubt it was dumb luck they ended up on the same ship.

My theory is that Book and possibly his monastary were involved with the same group that contacted Simon and helped him break River out. If they arranged passage, Book could've gotten the heads-up and been sent to keep an eye on her. Since she's important to them.

I find it revealing to keep referring back to the Buffy cast as a template. In that way, just as River is roughly analogous to Buffy, Book is roughly analogous to Giles.

[Steve Jordan]

I agree Book was certainly at a high level in the Alliance. Still, the people/things he knew could be explained without being another Operative, but by being involved in military or high political dealings. Perhaps he was a senior officer or political figure who did something he later regretted? "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" comes to mind. Also, his apparent need to seek absolution from Inara (and no one seems to think about the fact that Inara might know what he did!).

I never saw any indication that Book knew about River or Simon before he met them on board Serenity. I'm not so sure Book was sent ahead to watch out for River, because if he was... why would he later leave the ship and take up residence in Haven? I think his past was in no way connected to River, but yes, it may be another side of the same Alliance coin.

[Brown Rat]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I agree Book was certainly at a high level in the Alliance. Still, the people/things he knew could be explained without being another Operative, but by being involved in military or high political dealings. Perhaps he was a senior officer or political figure who did something he later regretted? "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" comes to mind. Also, his apparent need to seek absolution from Inara (and no one seems to think about the fact that Inara might know what he did!).

I, too, tend to think Book was a high-level political or military personage in the Alliance; he has gravitas that implies he held a high-level position. And I always thought his having joined a monastery was in part penance for some deed he regretted.

When did he seek absolution from Inara? I missed that. (I recall that when he first met Inara, he was a bit snarky about her profession, then recanted. But I assume you mean something more than that, Steve.)

A possibly related tangent about Book: Do you suppose that his emphasis on the need for faith--to believe in something, not necessarily in religion--isn't just his reading of Mal, but is also a message he learned from personal experience? And how does that compare to the Operative?

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Brown Rat

When did he seek absolution from Inara? I missed that. (I recall that when he first met Inara, he was a bit snarky about her profession, then recanted. But I assume you mean something more than that, Steve.)

I was thinking of the episode "Out of Gas" (I believe) when Serenity was heavily damaged by an internal explosion, and everyone except Mal abandoned ship... Book went to Inara and confessed his fear of death to her. I also remember him kneeling before her at that point. I got the impression he was looking for forgiveness before he died.

Edited: Okay, I have my eps mixed up. In "Out of Gas," Book confessed his fear of death to River. Maybe the scene I'm remembering is from "Serenity," and he was simply penitant. Either way... got to double-check those DVDs.

That scene, and his activity on Haven, tells me he was regretful of past deeds, and was actively seeking good works to do, to "balance the scales" (a need he had satisfied on Haven, apparently... he seemed ready to die then).

[Steve Jordan]

As much as I'm curious about Book, I'd much rather see Inara featured. There are so many good facets there:
1. Why did she leave her Companion's Guild? Was it her idea, or someone else's?
2. She is a trained observer and skilled reader of people. She also knows how to research. What does she know about Book... what does she see in Mal? Was something she learned about someone else the reason for leaving the Guild?
3. Does she have an "agenda" of her own regarding her career? Mal's future? Or is she really content to just work the fringe?
4. Is she actively avoiding someone? Looking for someone?
5. Did she and Mal's paths cross in the past? Even peripherally?
6. What else might the Companion's Guild be involved in?
7. And where does she get exploding incense?

Lots of material there...

[Joel007]

As far as i can remember (and probably speculate too), Inara left her senior teaching position at the guild because of some drug related scandal (the reason she looks so young). She probably fell in love with Mal as a fascination or crush, and then proceeded to develop deeper feelings for him as she got to know him better. (As of one of the episides she said she's been on the ship 8 months.)
Exploding incense would be easy enough, if you use the incense as a jury-rigged fuse

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Joel007

As far as i can remember (and probably speculate too), Inara left her senior teaching position at the guild because of some drug related scandal (the reason she looks so young).

Okay, I clearly missed any and every reference to a teaching position and a drug-related scandal! What ep do I watch to see that?