"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

[Stephen Aryan]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

But all too often it's what I said, sadly...which is why most books are turned down by every publisher and agent. But of course you're right 1 or 2% of the time (as I've said before, over fifteen years working as a publisher, I took on books that other editors turned down and vice versa - but the vast majority of books submitted are turned down by everyone). And every author should try more than one agent or publisher, because of that. As Susan said earlier in the thread, it's about hard work, self-belief and keeping your head down and not being discouraged or blaming a reason other than the fact that what you're writing doesn't fit the market or simply isn't good enough yet.

I'm definitely going to keep this in mind, especially the last part.

I'm must say, I've been lurking on the forum for a bit and only joined recently and this is one of the nicest online communities I've come across with no sniping and trolls. I feel very at home already.

[John Jarrold]

Thanks, Stephen! As we say to all newcomers, ask anything you want!

Best of luck!

[Dozmonic]

Aye I do like the word "yet" in that last sentence. I'm sure everyone who writes has seen the transformations redrafting can make to a piece of work ;-)

[John Jarrold]

As I've said before, it took as wonderful a writer as Iain Banks over ten years of writing, submitting and rewriting six different books before he clinched his first publishing deal in the mid-1980s. So no one should expect anything other than a great deal of hard work and time spent learning the craft...although it happens quickly on occasion, for 99% of authors who are published it takes years.

[Peter Graham]

Hi John,

Picking up on something in your last post, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it was considered poor form to re-submit revised material to someone who's already knocked you back. I've always seen it as "one strike and you're out." Am I barking up the wrong tree?

And if it is OK to re-submit, is it wise to let the agent/publisher know in the covering letter that they've knocked you back once, but that the Great Work has now received such a thorough bashing that it may be worth their time giving it a second look?

Regards,

Peter

[SJAB]

Peter,

Don't know about re-submitting, but a number of agents were willing to read other novels of mine, John included.

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

Hi John,

Picking up on something in your last post, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it was considered poor form to re-submit revised material to someone who's already knocked you back. I've always seen it as "one strike and you're out." Am I barking up the wrong tree?

And if it is OK to re-submit, is it wise to let the agent/publisher know in the covering letter that they've knocked you back once, but that the Great Work has now received such a thorough bashing that it may be worth their time giving it a second look?

Regards,

Peter

Unless an agent says 'I would like to see this again if you work on...' they don't want to see the same book again. But you can submit other work later on, unless they say otherwise.

[Peter Graham]

Many thanks, both - I assumed that was the case, but it's good to have it confirmed.

All the best,

Peter

[Mr Tagomi]

A question for John and any professional novelists out there:

I'm curious about the practicalities of becoming a professional author. When do people typically give up the day job?

I work 9-5 as a technical writer myself, and I find that the best I can do in the evenings is about an hour working on a novel or short story (and that's on a good day).

This means that my output is building at a snail's pace, and makes me wish I did not have a day job. But I have to make a living, so there is no option.

[MarkCN]

Originally Posted by Mr Tagomi

A question for John and any professional novelists out there:

I'm curious about the practicalities of becoming a professional author. When do people typically give up the day job?

I work 9-5 as a technical writer myself, and I find that the best I can do in the evenings is about an hour working on a novel or short story (and that's on a good day).

This means that my output is building at a snail's pace, and makes me wish I did not have a day job. But I have to make a living, so there is no option.

Well, with John's help, I've a book deal with Tor UK (Pan Macmillan), first novel coming out next year. I work from 8am-4.30pm and then write from about 5.30pm until 7.30. After that I carry the novel around in my head, and if I'm lucky I get about an hour to read - which I tend not to do to relax, but study other writers and their techniques. I rarely have time to watch the TV, and only go out for the night at the most twice a week. (Try throwing dating into all of this!) I'm only 27 but have been doing this on repeat for around four years.

Despite the good book deal from Pan Mac, and the day job, there is still far too much month left at the end of the money, so it could never be full time at the moment. I would say you'd need a few successful books behind you before even thinking of giving up the day job - for the royalties on top of advances to gather momentum.

Basically, if you want to be a successful writer, you have to make sacrifices and work as hard as you can - it isn't easy, and doesn't happen overnight, and requires luck and timing to boot. Just the same if you wanted to succeed at anything else, I guess. Hope it doesn't put you off!

[neilwilliamson]

Originally Posted by Mr Tagomi

A question for John and any professional novelists out there:

I'm curious about the practicalities of becoming a professional author. When do people typically give up the day job?

I work 9-5 as a technical writer myself, and I find that the best I can do in the evenings is about an hour working on a novel or short story (and that's on a good day).

This means that my output is building at a snail's pace, and makes me wish I did not have a day job. But I have to make a living, so there is no option.

Mr Tagomi - I can only emphasise what Mark's said above. In fact the only reason for adding my tuppenceworth here is that your situation and mine are very similar.

I'm also a full time technical author, and I have to fit the fiction in where I can manage it. Fortunately for me I work in a city centre with lots of cafes, so I'm able to enforce a daily routine of getting up to an hour's writing in before work begins at 9am, and another hour at lunchtime. In addition I'd say I also do an hour or so on average in the evenings and 3-4 hours on Saturdays and Sundays.

I do manage a certain amount of social life, and I get to exchange pleasantries with my partner almost every day, but as Mark says, you have to be prepared to make time sacrifices when you're running the 9-5.

Can I see myself giving up the day job? Not any time in the near future, maybe never. Even if John manages to sell the book I'm working on, the finances just wouldn't work out. The one thing I would consider, should a deal similar to Mark's land on my lap, is cutting my hours to four or three days a week. Perhaps your employer would be open to that suggestion?

There are drawbacks to working in such a piecemeal fashion, not least of which is keeping the continuity of your book in your head, and even an extra day or two that I could use 100% for the writing would make a huge difference to the pace at which my fiction gets done. But until I'm getting paid for it, even that's a non-starter for me.

Of course, all of that is dependent on the little life luxuries that you could or couldn't live with out, but in most cases a roof, food and a little spending money has to come from somewhere.

[Mr Tagomi]

Neil and Mark, thanks for your responses. This is very interesting.

Maybe I'm doing myself a slight disservice, in as much as I probably manage up to two hours some evenings. Nevertheless, this is too slow a pace, really. I feel that I'm not progressing as a writer as fast as I might if I could give more time to it.

I'm sure you know that I mean. Every now and again, you achieve some storytelling effect that you never managed before, and you feel that you have taken an important step forward. You now "understand" something new about the process of writing fiction. Only grappling with stories enables you to achieve this.

And yes, it's true that working in a piecemeal fashion makes it difficult to keep the work in one's head, and makes continuity very difficult.

Congratulations to you both, by the way, on your achievements to date.

[Mr Tagomi]

Actually, I forgot to express my main gripe:

Because I work on my stuff after coming home from the office, I tend to finish up just before bedtime. Very often this leads to a situation in which my mind is racing, and I can't sleep. A vicious circle ensues, in which I get more and more tired each night during the week.

I'd be interested to know whether this is a common experience.

[MarkCN]

Originally Posted by Mr Tagomi

Actually, I forgot to express my main gripe:

Because I work on my stuff after coming home from the office, I tend to finish up just before bedtime. Very often this leads to a situation in which my mind is racing, and I can't sleep. A vicious circle ensues, in which I get more and more tired each night during the week.

I'd be interested to know whether this is a common experience.

Personally, if I do it right after work, it gives me a couple of hours or so of relaxation afterwards. But everyone is an individual. Maybe getting up an hour earlier and writing then is for you - or lunch hours - just find a good groove and stick with it. The important think is you get words down regularly, because when you do land a deal, publishers will expect a book a year from you, and you'll need to be able to perform...

[neilwilliamson]

Yeah, I need to disengage at night. I don't tend to write late (unless I'm really on a roll) for exactly the reason you describe. Mornings suit me a lot better.

And as Mark says, it's as well to find a routine that works for you now.