"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

[Wezman]

Originally Posted by Kissmequick

what do I want? I want interesting characters, not the bland and impersonal ones I'm getting. I want them to leap out and take hold of me. I want fire and brimstone and spunk and guts and...You get the idea. Not a synopsis of current events, or a detailed biography of every single day in the life of one character. Hitchcock once said film ( read fiction) is a life with all the boring bits taken out - and that's what I want! I want action, I want personal sacrifice, I want the dream of another world fully and both physically and emotionally realised, I want a book that when I finish it leaves me hopeful about the condition of the human race, that people with the same flaws as I have can and do make a difference, that the most unlikely people can do something that affects the world they live in.

Sounds like you'd enjoy mine. No intentional sales ploy intended. *cough, cough*

[Kissmequick]

Yeah I know - I'm being crotchety, but only because fantasy is my first love in fiction, and I'm depressed about the way it seems to be going. It's something that's bothered me for a while. I wamt the new books to fire me up the same way the old ones did, and they don't! There's so little to them.

*sigh* I'm just going to have to wait for really interesting characters to come back into fashion.

oh and wez, yours is on my list of *books to buy* god help you.

[John Jarrold]

As far as I'm concerned, they never left. I'm 54, and I've read SF and fantasy for the best part of forty years. There's never been a time when I've liked everything, but there's never been a time when I haven't been able to find Good Stuff, either. I just don't expect the market to bend to my personal likes and dislikes!

[Kissmequick]

Lol, yeah I know. I don't expect the whole thing to bend to me, far from it, I realise everyone's tastes are different, and that was more my point tbh. I've never liked everything the genre has to offer, but until recently I've always been able to find something. Yet now even that seems restricted. There are so many tastes, wouldn't it be sensible to cater to more of them? Just the occassional one would be nice

[John Jarrold]

And if it sold enough copies, mainstream publishers would. I'm sorry, I think fantasy is a wonderfully broad church in 2007. Much more so than ever before.

[Kissmequick]

Then I shall agree to disagree, to a point. I never expected anyone to agree with me, I know my views are not exactly mainstream. And when I find more than the odd book in my favourite genre that makes me go *wow* I shall agree with you completely. It's like TV, Idon't like reality Tv but lots do. Yet I do expect find something I can watch.

OK?

[Wezman]

Originally Posted by Kissmequick

Yeah I know - I'm being crotchety, but only because fantasy is my first love in fiction, and I'm depressed about the way it seems to be going. It's something that's bothered me for a while. I wamt the new books to fire me up the same way the old ones did, and they don't! There's so little to them.

*sigh* I'm just going to have to wait for really interesting characters to come back into fashion.

oh and wez, yours is on my list of *books to buy* god help you.

Woohoo! For that I may turn up on the Triple and we can go for a blast, with my missus and your feller, of course. Can't have the rest of the list gossipping can we?

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Kissmequick

Then I shall agree to disagree, to a point. I never expected anyone to agree with me, I know my views are not exactly mainstream. And when I find more than the odd book in my favourite genre that makes me go *wow* I shall agree with you completely.

OK?

I'd usually recommend Gemmell to Conan fans, but obviously I can't in your case! I much prefer Druss to Conan (who I loved when I was 17). More realistic, and aware of his own mortality...

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Kissmequick

Then I shall agree to disagree, to a point. I never expected anyone to agree with me, I know my views are not exactly mainstream. And when I find more than the odd book in my favourite genre that makes me go *wow* I shall agree with you completely.

OK?

Just a thought - you may find more of the colourful characters you like being published in the US. About 80% of US SF and Fantasy isn't published over here. The size of their market allows for a wider range, which can sell sufficent copies over there to make commercial sense, whereas the market for those areas of the genre in the UK just ain't big enough to be commercially viable to the major publishers. Should be easy enough to get these days, via the net and specialist shops.

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Kissmequick

It's like TV, Idon't like reality Tv but lots do. Yet I do expect find something I can watch.

OK?

You're comparing oranges and apples...

[Kissmequick]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

You're comparing oranges and apples...

Well just trying to make my point in an accessible manner. It's all entertainment for the masses after all. More cox's and golden delicious?

Honestly, I don't expect the genre to bow down to my tastes or whatever. I don't expect anyone to agree with 100% - we all have our own opinions, and I wanted to debate the differences, and the whys and wherefores.

Obviously people other than me enjoy what is published tremendously, and good for them. I would like a fair crack at the whip though! My tastes aren't that extreme. I was only expressing a viewpoint, in the hope of a nice discussion, and to hear other viewpoints ( and yes I know I get a bit passionate, but this is fantasy dammit!). I'm a big lover of debate, thrust and counterpoint....

And yes, I have found a difference between US and Uk published works. It was the UK industry I wanted to discuss though.


And wez, any time. We'll leave your missus and my old man in the pub and OD on adrenaline on the TT course.

[Wezman]

Originally Posted by Kissmequick

And wez, any time. We'll leave your missus and my old man in the pub and OD on adrenaline on the TT course.

Done deal. 120ish over the mountain makes for a fun ride. The Trip will go faster, but I would lose my head in the drag if I did. Oh, and oncoming traffic. At least the racers have it one way. Oh, so did we this year. The mountain was race-wise for the whole two weeks. Now that was fun.

Wez

[scalem X]

Isn't the problem just that people with your sort of off-mainstream needs can just grab back to the old fantasy/scifi or whatever we're talking about?
After all a lot of those books stay in print. The thing is that twenty thirty years ago, a lot of crap was also produced. But what we remember now and read now is the good stuff of that age. So of course if you compare all the stuff from now, to the good stuff of that age, you'll have the impression that nowadays' writings are weaker.
Now for the matter of genre changes and that you can't find now what you could find back then: it is only logical. The reason why I won't write in exactly the same style as Asimov is that I can't beat him at his own game. I can create my own style and develop it until I'm as good as he was in his style, but I'll never write beter in his style than he did. If you like Asimov's style then I guess he's the best guy to read.
(anyway I think things are going off-track here) No one wants to start an argument about why the sixties had beter music than the seventies and otherwise...

[Havlen]

Let me be the first to say that this thread has really been hopping today 8)

[SJAB]

I understand where Kissmequick is coming from with regards to not finding modren books that compare with older, more loved works. I, too, find it harder to find books I enjoy in the same way, but I have realised that in many cases it is not the quality of the writing, but me that has changed over the years. My tastes are different, in fact I don't re-read old favourites now, as I have found that often the enjoyment I once had in them can be lost.

Something else I have learned over the last few years is that even if I am not keen on a published book, I can, most often or not, see why it has been published. I am not a fan of Scott Lynch's work, yet I can plainly see that he is a talented writer, that his story of Locke Lamora struck a cord with thousands of readers, and the buzz surrounding it was created by the readers far more than publishers' hipe. The book is not bad, far from it, but it is not for me. But I have no doubt that is twenty years it will be considered a "classic" of the genre.

As a want to be writer I tend to write the type of stories I like to read. I haven't yet produced a novel that has made an agent sit up and say. "Yes, I like this! I think it can be published." I know I might never produce such a work. I accept the fact that my chances of making it into print are very, very small. I still write and I still try, as I know that there is not a formula to writing a publishable novel. It is a matter of combining talent as a writer with a plot/characters that hook and entertain the reader, just like Scott Lynch has done.

As you cannot judge yourself as regards to talent, plot/characters etc, I tend to burden the poor agents/publishers that have to wade through my many submissions with that.