"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

[Daniel Ionson]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

Yep, I'll be there! Waiting to hear if they want me on panel/panels!

The Program schedule was just published on their site. I see that you'll be on two of them. Looks like it will be a great conference.

[Jennifer Kirk]

I've been slowly reading my way through this thread over the last couple of hours (not read every post here yet - there's a lot). There really is some excellent advice here, and it's refreshing to see an agent so willing to take questions in this way and give such honest answers!

I just wish that I had known about this site and, in particular, this thread before submitting several books over the last couple of years to you. I read with reddened cheeks a few of the Mickey Mouse mistakes I made (and I have the emails to go back and cringe over too - I just did that).

At every level though you were the most helpful, amiable and polite person I ever dealt with in publishing, despite my falling into several of the traps you have warned against in this thread. I did take all you said on board, and it has gone to make my writing far better than the amateur rubbish I used to send you

I didn't realise that Alfred Bester's 'The stars my destination' was one of your favourite books otherwise I wouldn't have dared suggest that I might have had a slightly similar writing style. Still, it was an influential book.

Thanks for all the good advice!

[thaddeus6th]

Jennifer, I know how you feel, writ small. I'd submitted to two agents and was checking to make sure Mr. Jarrold wasn't dodgy ( ) when I found this thread. I'd made so many howlers, and the alterations took me a hell of a long time. This forum's a fantastic resource for writers, and this thread in particular is bloody useful.

Hurrah for Chrons and Mr. Jarrold!

[PS I should've written this before submitting to him ]

[Daniel Ionson]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Kirk

I've been slowly reading my way through this thread over the last couple of hours (not read every post here yet - there's a lot). There really is some excellent advice here, and it's refreshing to see an agent so willing to take questions in this way and give such honest answers!

I just wish that I had known about this site and, in particular, this thread before submitting several books over the last couple of years to you. I read with reddened cheeks a few of the Mickey Mouse mistakes I made (and I have the emails to go back and cringe over too - I just did that).

At every level though you were the most helpful, amiable and polite person I ever dealt with in publishing, despite my falling into several of the traps you have warned against in this thread. I did take all you said on board, and it has gone to make my writing far better than the amateur rubbish I used to send you

I didn't realise that Alfred Bester's 'The stars my destination' was one of your favourite books otherwise I wouldn't have dared suggest that I might have had a slightly similar writing style. Still, it was an influential book.

Thanks for all the good advice!

Yes- it really seems that there's a mountain of info to absorb (and I have just begun). I've logged ludicrous amounts of time Googling different issues, and sifted through multiple books on writing (some are great, many are crap).

I'm hoping to learn a lot from the WF Convention in Ohio [ World Fantasy Convention 36 - WFC 2010 ] where I get to meet the man, himself.

Good luck, JK.

Daniel

[Stephen Palmer]

Originally Posted by Daniel Ionson

Good luck, JK.

Having the tag JK has got to be a good start...

[Jennifer Kirk]

Originally Posted by Stephen Palmer

Having the tag JK has got to be a good start...

The thought did occur to me just now too...

[mad_iguana]

Hi - I've only recently found this thread, and have spent the past few days reading through it and gaining tons of valuable insights that I will undoubtedly put to work in the task of attempting to complete my lovely novel.
So thanks to everyone - John in particular, but also everyone else who has been giving the benefit of their experience and experiences to those of us who are only novices in the game.

And so to my novice question / request for opinions:
I'm in the midst (roughly the middle, in fact) of my first Fantasy novel/tale, and I've written somewhere in the region of 130,000 words, so far.
I'm continuing to plough ahead with the book, as obviously finishing the story is the most important part for a writer, but I'm also wondering about the process for submission to an agent etc.
The story as it stands at the moment will have three quite distinct sections, which would theoretically allow it to be a trilogy. However, the first section is currently too short (approx. 75,000 words according to MSWord word-count, or 83,000 according to a "publisher's word-count which I read about on the internet) and it's likely that, as things stand, the other sections will also be too short for full novels.
- Is it worthwhile to revisit the first section of the story and lengthen it (something I could quite easily do, since there are many events that are hinted at within the story that could be expanded and explained more completely) to novel length, and pitch it as the first part of a trilogy? At the risk of possibly weakening the pacing, of course.
- Is it better to complete the whole thing and submit it as a story of 250,000 words or so? Obviously at the risk of writing for another 6 months before finding out from someone in the business that it is not only unmarketable but unreadable tripe.
- Or is it better to find a break point at about 120,000 words and re-work it into the first part of a duology?

To be honest, I find writing the story to be a relatively straightforward job - it is the editing is a {insert expletive of choice here} nightmare; trying to package the story together in a way that maximises its marketability is something that I haven't even been able to properly imagine!

Anyway, thanks in advance for your help, and in retrospect for the fantastic advice that has been provided over the past 106 pages and 4 and a bit years!

mad_iguana

[I, Brian]

Welcome mad_iguana.

If I may interject, the first challenge is to get your story written to completion. However, even then, it's only a "first draft". No doubt some things will stand out as requiring closer attention once you get to that stage.

[mad_iguana]

Thanks Brian - I feared as much, although you read about people who submit the first book of a trilogy before finishing the whole thing, and I perhaps thought optimistically that this might be an option...
Looking forward to getting to the exciting stage of having a final line, though.

[Anne Lyle]

It really depends if the "first book in the trilogy" is a complete story in itself that happens to have a couple of sequels in the works, or a Tolkienesque first-volume-in-a-single-honking-great-tome.

The former you can sell without having written the rest, no problem, even as a newcomer*; the second... not so much, unless you have a good track record already. The publisher needs to know you can finish what you started!

* A friend of mine got her first three-book deal that way, and I'm hoping to do the same

[chopper]

not to complicate matters, but there is also the Brent Weeks syndrome to consider: a current marketing tactic of presenting the reader with all 3 volumes of a trilogy in the space of 3 or 4 months, so that they do not have to wait 2-3 years to finish the story (and, presumably, lose interest along the way). if yours is a real trilogy, and works as such, then being able to say to an agent/publisher that the work is complate and available is quite an advantage. (note: this does not obviate the need for the work to be good enough for the agent to begin with....)

[mad_iguana]

Thanks guys - that really helps to clarify things.
I guess I'll keep at it for another 6 months or however long it takes to get through everything.
It's not easy writing a 250,000 word novel with a full-time job, a pregnant wife and a 9 month-old baby though!

[Manole Dan]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

For work, well, I receive material from around thirty authors every week. However, many of them can be turned down after a few chapters, sadly. I don't push myself, because if I'm not enjoying the book, in personal and professional terms, it isn't special enough.


I've always read for pleasure, both fiction and non-fiction. I guess it makes me very picky!

Hi John!
I just want to ask you if your current email address is the one posted on your web site because I've tried to query you with my book The Cursed Planet Chronicles and I wanted to be sure that it is the right adress. I am a young writer, from Romania, and i've just finished my first book. For me, judging by the number of rejected queries, to get an agent or an agency to publish a SCi Fi book turned out to be a nut with a hard to crack shell, if one is a debutant writer. It seems that today it's all about the money, or the "salability" of the book (I don't know if this is a word, but i've received this opinion about my book from an agent), instead of focusing on new ideeas. Of course, the money issue is of importance for both the writer and the publisher, but it is hard to come up with a new bestseller in this genre where almost everything was said, either in books, movies or video games. And you can't write your novel too "scientificaly", because you want your book to be read by everyone, not only by rocket scientists. Now, if you have a spaceship, it's like : "Been there, done that". A two headed alien monster? The same. And if you add a little romance it's like: "Some lovestruck astronauts, who can't even kiss in the void of space, because they will die without their helmets on". If Isaac Asimov would be alive now he would have to write a nice romance novel about vampires that go to school, and fall in love just like any other adolescent boy. I mean they're not the soulless beasts we know, right? I'm from Romania, so I ought to know better (thank you Bram Stocker, thank you Vlad the Impaler). "Salability" just degenerates the quality of a good SciFi, fiction book. All those Hannah Montana fans just won't read anything if it doesn't involve a romantic type drama between "She", human, and "He", werefolf, vampire, wizard, etc. My book has such a romantic spark between two of my characters, but trust me, you don't want to know how they end up, and the best romance is the one that degrades the characters, that makes them struggle, defying even death, to be toghether. Just like the mister above me, I know how it is to write a 170.000 words novel (in my case), and in the same time having to cope with day to day activities, like work, among others. It's even harder to get published in Romania, where the literary market laks the presence of agents or agencies. So here I am, submitting my query letter to every possible agency or agent from U.S.A, or the rest of the world. To conclude with this long post I would like to ask you John, what makes a good SciFi novel, if not the ideea and the motivation of the writer? Are those the things that make a good book, or is it the "salability"? Sorry for my long post, sorry if I ofended enyone, and sorry for the eventual spelling errors.

[Boneman]

Originally Posted by mad_iguana

Thanks guys - that really helps to clarify things.
I guess I'll keep at it for another 6 months or however long it takes to get through everything.
It's not easy writing a 250,000 word novel with a full-time job, a pregnant wife and a 9 month-old baby though!

Yeah... I can see you've been distracted!

Everyone will tell you: you only get one shot at it. So make it the very best it can be, and good luck with it.

[mad_iguana]

Distracted and busy!!
I'm sure everyone has found it to be like this, but my aim is to average about 1,000 words a day, and I've largely been hitting that over the past two months, so I'd hope to have it finished in the new year, then to spend a month doing rewrites and then do the "leave for a month and return" to re-edit. Around about the time baby no. 2 arrives.
At that point, my hope is that I will be showered with plaudits as the most original and awe-inspiring writer in history, and can retire to scribble my thoughts on an island in the Caribbean or something.
Although I fear that last part is the least achievable bit. Which is saying something...