How books are chosen by UK publishers - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

John Jarrold · 2nd June 2006, 01:58 PM

Someone just asked me about the publishing process for new authors in UK publishers. The details vary, but this is pretty much it:

Basically, every editor in London will receive around thirty books a week, some from agents, some direct from authors. In the former case, the agent may well have spoken to the editor in advance, so they have an idea what to expect.

An SF and fantasy editor may only be taking on one or two new authors a year, and there are two specific points they look for: wonderful writing and great commerciality. That cuts out over 99% of the books they are seeing.

Once the editor does think they have something that special, they take it to the editorial meeting. Before that meeting, every other editor in the company has to read the book, and they will make their comments, positive and negative, at the meeting. If the book gets over that hurdle - and many don't - it will then be taken to the publishing meeting. Before THAT meeting, the sales director, marketing director, publicity director, managing director and other senior, non-editorial staff have to read it, and agree that it is both wonderfully written and intensely commercial. Again, many new books fall at this hurdle. However, if this is all agreed, the sales director and editor will agree on expected sales figures for the first print-run, and a costing will be produced. From that, the editor will come up with a sum that the book is worth to the publisher and, once he has the agreement of his managing director, he will make an offer. Easy! Probably less than 10% of the books that enter this process at the editorial meeting actually have offers made. And they themselves are far less than 1% of the books that are originally submitted by authors and agents.

argenianpoet · 2nd June 2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

If the book gets over that hurdle - and many don't - it will then be taken to the publishing meeting. Before THAT meeting, the sales director, marketing director, publicity director, managing director and other senior, non-editorial staff have to read it, and agree that it is both wonderfully written and intensely commercial. Again, many new books fall at this hurdle.

Wow, that's disheartening is it not? Moreover, we are talking about more than just one opinion here, and that scares me. This person has to approve it and then this person and so on and so on... And even if the book is good it stands a chance of plowing right smack dab into the hurdle. John, this sounds a lot like a bad nightmare I had last night...

Your opinion should be the most important one, I think, but I know it don't work that way.

John Jarrold · 2nd June 2006, 04:56 PM

Yes, it used to be much more that way, but over the last five to ten years publishing has become far more corporate, and the sales and marketing directors have a huge amount of power in many companies.

Marky Lazer · 2nd June 2006, 05:00 PM

It's all about the money
It's all about the dum dum du du du dum...

Anyway, you can call it disheartening, but I wouldn't look at it that way. I see it more as a challenge for yourself, to make you story even better. Exceed yourself. It's the only way to make your fiction better. So, 'disheartening' sounds so negative...

Paradox 99 · 2nd June 2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marky Lazer

Anyway, you can call it disheartening, but I wouldn't look at it that way. I see it more as a challenge for yourself, to make you story even better. Exceed yourself. It's the only way to make your fiction better. So, 'disheartening' sounds so negative...

My thoughts exactly, Marky.
Imagine how satisfying it is for an author to get an offer knowing that their work had to get through all of that!

John, it must be such a pleasure when you actually do get to say to a writer - "You're in!"
I know it's probably a step-by-step process, but there must be a point where the writer has been told that it's all going through. How does that usually happen? Is it a letter? A phone call? Or does it vary - not that it matters, but I'm curious. It must be great being able to give an author the good news.

John Jarrold · 2nd June 2006, 06:20 PM

Well, if there is an agent, they will ring the author when the deal is confirmed. There is often some dickering about terms and the level of the advance. It might be that as an editor you offer £5000 for a book, the agent discusses this with the author and asks if you can make it £7000, and then you talk to your bosses and offer £6000 and then the agent comes back after another conversation with the author to accept. So the author knows before the editor does!

When I worked as an editor, when the agent rang to confirm acceptance of an offer, I usually asked if it was okay for me to ring or e-mail the author and congratulate them, too!

argenianpoet · 2nd June 2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marky Lazer

It's all about the money
It's all about the dum dum du du du dum...

Anyway, you can call it disheartening, but I wouldn't look at it that way. I see it more as a challenge for yourself, to make you story even better. Exceed yourself. It's the only way to make your fiction better. So, 'disheartening' sounds so negative...

You're right; it is a challenge and if you do succeed at it then you can honestly say that you done something right. I have not lost hope and in a way I was just being silly, please forgive my over-dramatization. It's just that it did remind me of a dream...LOL! Anyway, guys, it would be no fun if it wasn't a challenge right? If everyone got their books published just because they wrote one, well that would be a nightmare in itself, would it not? Ultimately, it's always about perception; how you view things, and negativity I don't take seriously. My literal opinion on this matter is there are far too many chances out there for a writer to become dismayed. I don't have an exact count here, but I would imagine that the number of literary agents out there excell into the thousands worldwide, not to mention publishers. They may not all be members of the AAR, but that don't make them bad either. Research, diligence and hardwork are the keys to success and I have that kind of drive and desire personally. I believe this: if you believe in something hard enough you will work to make it happen. Desire has always, and will always be the formula for greatness, both in the scientific world and in the art and entertainment world. Even Einstein said: "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Thus imagination is the firing pin of knowledge, and without its inspiration--desire--knowledge is worthless. So my question is this: who here has imagination, because that is the key of every successful person that has ever lived, and it is the one thing that they all have in common.

Marky Lazer · 2nd June 2006, 06:45 PM

I see you getting the hang of it. Sometimes people say daydreaming is bad, well you just created in a chance! I think every kid should get a daydream class of at least an hour a day!!

argenianpoet · 2nd June 2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marky Lazer

I see you getting the hang of it. Sometimes people say daydreaming is bad, well you just created in a chance! I think every kid should get a daydream class of at least an hour a day!!

That's what public school is for, believe me, I know. In fact, it's where I got a lot of pretty good ideas...

ZoeRat · 3rd June 2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by argenianpoet

Even Einstein said: "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Thus imagination is the firing pin of knowledge, and without its inspiration--desire--knowledge is worthless.

That's on of my favorite quotes! Another one I like is: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." -Thomas Edison

argenianpoet · 3rd June 2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoeRat

That's on of my favorite quotes! Another one I like is: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." -Thomas Edison

Einstein was so smart because he used his imagination to build his ideas on, and so so very few people in this world are brilliant in both art and science at the same time (especially considering the level he was on). Most people that are good at science and math (which go hand in hand) are not so good at art and vice versa; moreover, even if they are gifted both ways, rarely do the two fuse together quite the way it did with Einstein. He used both sides of his brain and used them, coincidentally, all the time! He was as much a creative genius as he was a mathematical genius. And in my opinion, he was one of the smartest men to ever walk the face of the earth.

Inspiration is key to great stories and unless you have a high amount of it, your story will never soar. Of course the other side to that is, inspiration is no good if you aren't willing to put in the hours, but it just so happens that I am willing, and so are you or so it sounds...

RAGordon · 8th December 2006, 10:47 PM

Is the editor more likely to take a longer look at a submission from a proven agent? Would the fact that a manuscript came from an agent make them read more then a few paragraphs before making their mind up?

John Jarrold · 9th December 2006, 08:19 AM

An agent will usually talk to an editor about a novel they are sending, to prepare the way. I've been on both sides of that equation, for instance as an editor when I discussed authors like Ken MacLeod or Mike Cobley with their agents before acquiring their debut novels, and now when I have discussed Stephen Hunt or Philip Palmer with editors before selling them to Voyager and Orbit respectively. It's part of an agent's job... because of the number of typescripts an editor receives weekly, this can work as a weeding device. But the editor still has to love the book and also believe it's extremely commercial, of course.

So the simple answer is 'Yes'.

RAGordon · 10th December 2006, 01:36 PM

Thanks for the reply, I've been lurking on these forums for awhile and your advice is always to the point and practical - and much appreciated...a follow up question on the idea of commercial

.

Are books that contain more mature themes/language harder to get published because of the need for the widest possible audience? I'm interested because I tend to write for a more 'adult' audience - which translates into characters swearing (because of their character of course), rather graphic depictions of violence and sometimes sexuality (sometimes both at the same time), and what some might consider rather un-pc themes.

Does this mean I should be looking towards publishers that have done these kinds of things in the past? Are the more commercially recognisable houses adverse to such material? I presume that the UK market has more of a tolerance for these kinds of themes then in the US...

If anybody is interested, I have posted an excerpt from my newest work-in-progress Luna Rising. I didn't post the first chapter because of rather graphic scenes, and the chapter I did post is peppered with 'bad' language. I'm just wondering whether I should consider toning it down at all to increase the chance of being published...of course the story comes first, but I do want something published one day!

John Jarrold · 10th December 2006, 09:16 PM

Who do you think you'll be compared with (think of writers who have come to the fore in the last five years, not long-term bestsellers), by publishers' sales people pitching your book to the main book retailers and wholesalers? Do those authors use bad language to the extent you do? If not, why not? If they do, you have no problem...

2nd June 2006, 01:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
John Jarrold Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 1,045	How books are chosen by UK publishers Someone just asked me about the publishing process for new authors in UK publishers. The details vary, but this is pretty much it: Basically, every editor in London will receive around thirty books a week, some from agents, some direct from authors. In the former case, the agent may well have spoken to the editor in advance, so they have an idea what to expect. An SF and fantasy editor may only be taking on one or two new authors a year, and there are two specific points they look for: wonderful writing and great commerciality. That cuts out over 99% of the books they are seeing. Once the editor does think they have something that special, they take it to the editorial meeting. Before that meeting, every other editor in the company has to read the book, and they will make their comments, positive and negative, at the meeting. If the book gets over that hurdle - and many don't - it will then be taken to the publishing meeting. Before THAT meeting, the sales director, marketing director, publicity director, managing director and other senior, non-editorial staff have to read it, and agree that it is both wonderfully written and intensely commercial. Again, many new books fall at this hurdle. However, if this is all agreed, the sales director and editor will agree on expected sales figures for the first print-run, and a costing will be produced. From that, the editor will come up with a sum that the book is worth to the publisher and, once he has the agreement of his managing director, he will make an offer. Easy! Probably less than 10% of the books that enter this process at the editorial meeting actually have offers made. And they themselves are far less than 1% of the books that are originally submitted by authors and agents.

2nd June 2006, 04:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
John Jarrold Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 1,045	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers Yes, it used to be much more that way, but over the last five to ten years publishing has become far more corporate, and the sales and marketing directors have a huge amount of power in many companies.

2nd June 2006, 05:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Marky Lazer Plastic Paddy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,735	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers It's all about the money It's all about the dum dum du du du dum... Anyway, you can call it disheartening, but I wouldn't look at it that way. I see it more as a challenge for yourself, to make you story even better. Exceed yourself. It's the only way to make your fiction better. So, 'disheartening' sounds so negative...

2nd June 2006, 06:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
John Jarrold Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 1,045	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers Well, if there is an agent, they will ring the author when the deal is confirmed. There is often some dickering about terms and the level of the advance. It might be that as an editor you offer £5000 for a book, the agent discusses this with the author and asks if you can make it £7000, and then you talk to your bosses and offer £6000 and then the agent comes back after another conversation with the author to accept. So the author knows before the editor does! When I worked as an editor, when the agent rang to confirm acceptance of an offer, I usually asked if it was okay for me to ring or e-mail the author and congratulate them, too!

2nd June 2006, 06:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Marky Lazer Plastic Paddy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,735	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers I see you getting the hang of it. Sometimes people say daydreaming is bad, well you just created in a chance! I think every kid should get a daydream class of at least an hour a day!!

8th December 2006, 10:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
RAGordon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 15	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers Is the editor more likely to take a longer look at a submission from a proven agent? Would the fact that a manuscript came from an agent make them read more then a few paragraphs before making their mind up?

9th December 2006, 08:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
John Jarrold Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 1,045	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers An agent will usually talk to an editor about a novel they are sending, to prepare the way. I've been on both sides of that equation, for instance as an editor when I discussed authors like Ken MacLeod or Mike Cobley with their agents before acquiring their debut novels, and now when I have discussed Stephen Hunt or Philip Palmer with editors before selling them to Voyager and Orbit respectively. It's part of an agent's job... because of the number of typescripts an editor receives weekly, this can work as a weeding device. But the editor still has to love the book and also believe it's extremely commercial, of course. So the simple answer is 'Yes'.

10th December 2006, 01:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
RAGordon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 15	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers Thanks for the reply, I've been lurking on these forums for awhile and your advice is always to the point and practical - and much appreciated...a follow up question on the idea of commercial . Are books that contain more mature themes/language harder to get published because of the need for the widest possible audience? I'm interested because I tend to write for a more 'adult' audience - which translates into characters swearing (because of their character of course), rather graphic depictions of violence and sometimes sexuality (sometimes both at the same time), and what some might consider rather un-pc themes. Does this mean I should be looking towards publishers that have done these kinds of things in the past? Are the more commercially recognisable houses adverse to such material? I presume that the UK market has more of a tolerance for these kinds of themes then in the US... If anybody is interested, I have posted an excerpt from my newest work-in-progress Luna Rising. I didn't post the first chapter because of rather graphic scenes, and the chapter I did post is peppered with 'bad' language. I'm just wondering whether I should consider toning it down at all to increase the chance of being published...of course the story comes first, but I do want something published one day!

10th December 2006, 09:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
John Jarrold Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 1,045	Re: How books are chosen by UK publishers Who do you think you'll be compared with (think of writers who have come to the fore in the last five years, not long-term bestsellers), by publishers' sales people pitching your book to the main book retailers and wholesalers? Do those authors use bad language to the extent you do? If not, why not? If they do, you have no problem...

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