Is Mazrim Taim Demandred?

[timekiller]

Originally Posted by Niolani

Yes, and O'sangar was Aginor re-housed in a new body but Elza Penfell knocked him off.

It was the other forsaken Blathemal that got knocked off the one that made the shadowspawn. Aginor is the other one aran'gar the one in the female body as he was a famous womaniser. The great loard has a sence of humor

Originally Posted by flammableliquids

i would just like to say that i have heard this theory before and i disagree upon the simplist of reasons, Taim gave Al'thor a seal, and therefore at that stage cannot be a Dark friend, let alone one of the forsaken.

I disagree the seals are very very weak and nothing Rand can do will strengthen them they will break eventually and as there are only three remaining they should go quicker than before.
I think Taim is a darkfriend thats probably how he has survived the taint so long. I think his private lessons are to train new dreadloards for the last battel. Taim picked up how to make gateways very quickly and knew about angreal and sa'angreal. I have heard theories that Taim was trained by Isshy personally as he was only half sealed in the bore. I dont think hes one of the forsaken but a high ranking darkfriend and probably is going to be the leader of the male dreadlords.

Originally Posted by Niolani

they found Rand by Alanna's warder bond with him but I don't know how the Asha'man found them.

I think one of the asha'man was sent by Rand to get logain, one who is bonded to an aes sedi. So thats how they found him

[flammableliquids]

The more that i read the more that i think that the M'hael was killed and replaced with Sammael.

Originally Posted by timekiller
I disagree the seals are very very weak and nothing Rand can do will strengthen them they will break eventually and as there are only three remaining they should go quicker than before.

I seriously doubt that. The greater the influence of the Dark One, the better for dark friends, the idea of "oh he'll break through it eventually".... um right. Any dark friend or Forsaken would have taken the seal to Shayel watever straight away, if only to be in the good books of the dark one.

if u want proof that Demandred ISN'T the M'hael. Read the text in regards to Al'thors time in Far Madding. When one of the renegade Asha'man was ordered by; the M'hael, Ishmaheal aka Mordin, AND Demandred to hunt him down and kill him.

If Demandred knew that specific asha'man was already on the course to hunt and attempt to kill Al'thor why would he have bothered showing himself to a jumped up lackey at all?

Originally Posted by timekiller
I think one of the asha'man was sent by Rand to get logain, one who is bonded to an aes sedi. So thats how they found him

That, I just don't understand. There were NO asha'man bonded to Aes sedi at that time, there wasn't even contact with aes sedi at that time.

[Morlun]

First post. Hi all!

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

I haven't read the new book yet (all my collection is in TPB and I didn't want to stick a hulking HB next to them) but does the issue of the Forsaken come up a lot?
I'm still cheesed off that Robert Jordan invented Balefire which erases people from existance only for these 'dead' forsaken to come back thanks to the Dark Lord's intervention.
Massive, massive cop-out there and completely devalues his series IMO

Actually, the balefired Forsaken haven't returned. Bel'al and Rahvin were balefired, and the Dark Lord told Demandred that Rahvin served him well, but unfortunately he was out of his reach.

The Forsaken that have returned are Balthamel (as Aran'gar; was killed by the Nym at the Eye of the World); Aginor (as Osan'gar; burned himself with pure saidin at the Eye of the World), Ishamael (as Moridin; stabbed in the chest with Callandor), Lanfear (as Cyndane; presumably died somehow in the Aelffin/Eelffin-land).

Presumably Sammael, eaten by Mashadar, is also "out of the Dark One's reach". Asmodean, on the other hand, was a traitor and is probably burning in a very special hell.

Originally Posted by blink

i just re-read "winters heart" and no he isnt demandred but hes deff. a darkfriend.

The guy dashiva is/was ors'angar or something like that.

Taim is not Demandred, though they share many personality traits. There are two main reasons: Demandred failed to recognize Flinn at the battle of Shadar Logoth (paraphrasing: "Who's that man in black coming at me? I'm gonna kill him. Oh, ****! He's channeling!"); and Robert Jordan reportedly said so multiple times.

Corlan Dashiva was Osan'gar in disguise. Osan'gar was a ressurected Aginor. I doubt that his incompetence merits a second ressurection, though.

Originally Posted by timekiller

It was the other forsaken Blathemal that got knocked off the one that made the shadowspawn. Aginor is the other one aran'gar the one in the female body as he was a famous womaniser. The great loard has a sence of humor

You got them mixed up. Aginor was the shadowspawn creator, Balthamel the lecher.

Back to Taim, there's a lot more to him that meets the eye. He is clearly a Darkfriend. If nothing else, the prologue of Knife of Dreams makes that clear.

I kinda hope he was promoted to Forsaken. Moridin had 11 chairs for only 8 living Forsaken in the meeting at the beginning of the book. That implies that there may be three more. That whole room of Asha'man at the end of the book (100+) laughs at his "Lord of Chaos" saying. Those and the Black Ajah may very well be the Dark Lord's army of Dreadlords. Taim did an excellent job if he recruited 100+ channeling Darkfriends. Enough to merit the Dark Lord's special attention, to be made "Chosen".

According to the books, only 30 people wielded the "True Power" back in the Age of Legends... I doubt they were any less than "Chosen". They also state that over a dozen Forsaken were killed during the War of the Power due to the Dark Lord being suspicious. That shows that the Forsaken ranks are pretty fluid. While it's a lot more likely that somehow Taim will lead the Dreadlords, it'd be cooler if he was a new Forsaken. At least if the Dark Lord promotes by power and competence, he's a shoe-in.

[flammableliquids]

Oh wow! i had not considered the idea that Taim might have been promoted amongst darkfriends.

Nor the concept that there may be more dreadlords out there in the shadows!

But i disagree that Sammael's soul would have been outside the reach of the Dark One simply because Mashadar took it.

I was wondering if someone out there can answer something that i don't understand..... Liah, the Maiden of the spear who was left behind in Shadar Logoth and latter killed by Al'thor..... why did she hide from her spear sisters, getting her left behind for all that time? Was she a dark friend? and the touch of the dark one in her soul coupled with the darkness of Mashadar drove her nutz? i just don't get it. there i just SUCH a hole in it, i don't understand y.

i mean as a writer wat was the point of him even using her as a tool at all? eh i have deviated from the point some what, but then again, the point of this thread has been answered, and answered solidly in my opinion. NO Taim is NOT Sammael.

[flammableliquids]

***** Taim is NOT Demandred

LOL

[firstfist]

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

I'm still cheesed off that Robert Jordan invented Balefire which erases people from existance only for these 'dead' forsaken to come back thanks to the Dark Lord's intervention.
Massive, massive cop-out there and completely devalues his series IMO

I don't know of any Forsaken that have been returned after being singed with Balefire off-hand, but I can see how that may work.

The Chosen, I believe, were stuck in a limbo like state until freed by the Dark Lord. Unless the Balefire was strong enough to wipe them from all existance, unlikely as they are quite ancient now, all that it would have done is erase thier involvement in this current Age.

The Dark Lord would then be able to release them upon the world again, or rather the first time again.

Could be wrong, but that is just a thought.

[MeredithMeredith]

Looks like this post is fairly old but had to add my two cents after reading
LOC a second time.

Robert Jordan was quoted as saying that Demandred has "never posed as Taim" and ends the sentence with a cryptic remark about truth and Aes Sedai. Has anyone given any thought to the fact that all the Forsaken have real names that they went by before they 'turned'? Lanfear's real name is mentioned in Book 4. What if Demandred is Mazrim Taim, has been always, so therefore he is not posing at all. He simply is.

References are made to the fact that the Forsaken don't want to remember their true selves but Demandred is probably arrogant enough to do this - after all he hates Lews Therin the most, envied him the most, so who better to be than his real self as he pits himself against Rand, whom he would really see as Lews Therin?

[Reading_fanatic]

Originally Posted by flammableliquids

But i disagree that Sammael's soul would have been outside the reach of the Dark One simply because Mashadar took it.

Yes it would because remember that Mashadar was an evil in direct opposition to the shadow of the Dark lord and (I assume) it consumed their souls as well as destroying their bodies so a Darkfriend would lose their soul and The dark one an't get them back after being consumed by Mashadar

I was wondering if someone out there can answer something that i don't understand..... Liah, the Maiden of the spear who was left behind in Shadar Logoth and latter killed by Al'thor..... why did she hide from her spear sisters, getting her left behind for all that time? Was she a dark friend? and the touch of the dark one in her soul coupled with the darkness of Mashadar drove her nutz? i just don't get it. there i just SUCH a hole in it, i don't understand y.

remember what happened to Matt, The taint of Mashadar and Shadar Logoth drove people crazy and especially made them suspicious of any other person. Before Liah ran away remember she thought they were really not who they were (Or something like that) so she had simply succumbed to the taint that Killed Shadar Logoth and created Mashadar

NO Taim is NOT Sammael.

Agreed. But I don't even think he is truly a Darkfriend but merely someone out to carve an empire for himself (Basically an opportunist)