Everyone needs a conspiracy theory....

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Im out in the middle of nowhere with only 5 books to read....over and over again....so sometimes maybe I look a little too deep into some things....heres my latest crackpot idea....

At the end Twyin is remarkably calm when facing a loaded crossbow and a dwarf that already killed his nephew and king...I always chalked that up to him being a iron willed individual....

Also, if he;s not lying to Tyrion to get him to put the crossbow down...the Wall is a much kinder fate than I would think Tywin would allow. I would wager he would be quite incensed someone killed his grandchild...

In the one of the sittings of the small council Joffrey gets a little lippy and Tywins response is "I didnt wage this war to put Robert the Second on the throne" and "the boy needs a sharp lesson, he;s only thirteen, theres still time" (I paraphrased that last part)

Now the reasons for Joffreys death from the Petyr-Thorn alliance is to (from my perspective) put a more tractable Tommen on the throne and to prevent another war when Joffery would inevitably do something dumb and smack Margie around. Why cant Tywin want the same thing....? A safer throne and a more tractable king....

What if he knows Tyrion is innocent....because he's "in bed" with the lady of thorns (no one else I suspect)...he wants a stable realm, doesnt care one whit about his incestous grandchildren (what? you think he doesnt have ears and eyes) needs to disinherit Tyrion from Casterly Rock to force Jaime out of the Kingsguard, and ensures a craptastic Robert the Second doesnt make his way onto the scene as the new "bold" king. He's not scared when Tyrion is standing with a bow in front of him because he doesnt believe Tyrion is capable of killing kin, and he offers him the black because he knows he;s innocent.....

Any thoughts....?

By the way....10th post and all that...as someone pointed out in an earlier thread you can now call me a complete idiot

[Boaz]

Great thread title.

Congrats on being an idiot. Welcome to the club.

This theory is not bad, Joff was forcing Tywin to take a firmer hand than he probably intended, but regicide is still a leap without any hard evidence. A more tractable king would have been nice, but if he killed Joff, then eight year old Tommen (not the picture of health) would be all that stood between the Lannisters controlling the throne and the Lannisters being thrown out and perhaps killed. I say a bad king with an heir is better than a malleable king without one.

My own favorite theory on Tywin also suffers from no evidence whatsoever. The theory is that Shae and Bronn were working for Tywin from at least the night before the battle where Tywin defeats Roose Bolton. Knowing that whores are Tyrion's weakness, Tywin buys Bronn and has Bronn bring Shae to Tyrion. Both Bronn and Shae are vague concerning her origins. Shae seems over eager, in my opinion, to take a hideous dwarf (even a fabulously rich one) as her lover. Bronn and Shae feed info to Tywin (I'm sure the number of his informants was second only to Varys'.) Tywin expressly forbids Tyrion to take Shae to court knowing that Tyrion would then indeed take her to spite his father. How did Tywin stay abreast of the Small Council? Cersei, Baelish, Varys, Pycelle and Tyrion would only send Tywin certain information, but Shae and Bronn could easily inform him of all of the Hand's comings and goings. Bronn abandoned Tyrion for a title, Tyrion thought Cersei behind this, but in actuality Tywin had already assumed the Handship and the Regency. At Tyrion's trial, Shae's testimony was obviously bought or coerced... if it was Cersei, why was Shae not then immediately shipped off? if it was Tywin, would this explain why Shae was in his bed? Cersei seemed shocked that Tywin would take a common whore to his bed... but what if Shae was an accomplished spy and courtesan (a Geisha, if you will) in Tywin's employ? After Tywin's death, Bronn makes it clear that he disdains Cersei by naming his stepson after Tyrion. Bronn then defies Cersei's assassin and her authority. I don't think he'd have done it if he'd been in her pay, nor would she have treated him thus if she'd been paying him.

The problem with my theory is that there is not one bit of evidence... it's all conjecture.

[TK-421]

Well, as a fellow idiot who loves conspiracy theories (although mine focus more on the Ironborn and Targaryens), I have a hard time deciding which is the more plausible. I think there may be some elements of truth to both. Certainly Boaz's theory on Shea, Bronn and Tywin has alot of traction and I would not put it past GRRM. That would explain Shae's presence in Tywin's bed but not necessarily Bronn as the other logical conclusion for his attitude towards Cersei is that he actually is loyal to Tyrion as the only one who saw his worth and raised him from nothing (although he's still an A&#hole).

My take on Aegon's theory about Tywin being in on the murder of Joff is a little harder to swallow. I think he did believe that he could control Joff if he had his brother's and Jaime's help and if Cersei was married off somewhere and did not interfere. I think he knew Tyrion was innocent and that was why he offered his the Black but I think he was more ready to loose him than the swords of Highgarden.

Any other theories???

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Just for the record...I dont for one minute believe this crackpot theory....just like to connect dots and see where it takes me sometimes...also Tywin uttered this phrase once..."Why do people think its more noble for ten thousand men to die in the field than a dozen to die at dinner"...of course hes talking about the Red Wedding but there ya go...

Now as for Boaz's theory.....the only easy hole I can put in it is Shaes reaction to Sansa. Sansa describes her as being a decent hand maid but sometimes she shot her "insolent" looks. Not exactly the work of a super spy...more like a jealous mistress....not conclusive proof against but Im sure if youve typed this theory before you've heard better arguments.

Ill come up with another theory soon..Im working on one about the Targareyens and enlarged adams apples......good stuff....

[Boaz]

Enlarged adam's apples? No wonder they had purple eyes and white hair and looney kings... they cut off all the blood flow to their heads.

Good point about Shae's insolence to Sansa. I fully admit that the theory is of the crackpot conspiracy variety.

[Tom O'Sevens]

Here's mine...

The One True Heir to the Twins.

Some 75 years ago in the Riverlands a young Lordling who was heir to a pair of ugly stone keeps joined by a bridge across the Trident had his first crush. He fell for a beautiful smallfolk maid known for her gift as a storyteller and one night the pair of them got quite drunk together. Indeed the Lordling became so drunk that he forgot his status and did declare his undying love to the maid and that night had a Septon marry them and then the Lordling did bed the maid. The morning after the Lordling much regretted his action and being a coward fearing his father's actions should he find out, called the marriage void and drove off his young wife.

In time the Lordling became Lord of the ugly stone keeps and bridge and did marry again to a lady nearer his rank. Indeed he married quite a few ladies over the long life he was gifted with and did sire so many children and grandchildren that he gained a reputation as 'the only lord in the Seven Kingdoms who could field an army out of his breeches'.

However there is also the story of the young woman who he married and bedded then abandoned. Well she fled North and being found with child was taken in the then Lord Stark of Winterfell, whose wife was due to birth around the same time. She had a son who was breast-brother to the heir to Winterfell and named for his wayward father, the lord of the Crossing. He grew up, married, had a son also named for him and his father. This son grew up, married and had a son of the same name.

This son became a simple-minded stableboy seven-feet tall named as his father, grandfather and the great-grandfather who ruled the Twins in the Riverlands yet was known by the only word he ever said...

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

Hodor! yay me likey.

[Boaz]

Tom, yes, the thought had recently ocurred to me that Walder (aka Hodor) might be a descendent of the lord of the crossing. But to call him the one true heir...? Is there a strain of mental incompetency among the Freys? Jinglebell, Hodor...

[Tom O'Sevens]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Tom, yes, the thought had recently ocurred to me that Walder (aka Hodor) might be a descendent of the lord of the crossing. But to call him the one true heir...? Is there a strain of mental incompetency among the Freys? Jinglebell, Hodor...

I have heard mention of a slow-witted Frey daughter/granddaughter amongst some of the possibilities Catelyn dreaded Edmure being hitched to.

As for Hodor being the one true heir due to his great-granny Old Nan being Lord Frey's sole legitimate wife that's pure speculation, though due to them both being around the same age (ie ancient)its just plausible to suggest they could have been teenage sweet-hearts! The other interesting point is that Walder Frey's eldest legitimate son, Ser Stevron (in GoT) is about sixty-five which says Lord Frey was twenty-five when he was born. By Westeros standards that's a little old for your first child, I'd imagine someone with the sexual appetite of Walder Frey to be starting up young...

There's two points I like about this.

1) It gives Lord Walder Frey a moment in his long life where he once lost control badly and put his whole line at risk*. I like the idea that the much younger Frey was a rather naive and romantic individual, who grew into the evil old man he is now though narrowly escaping the results of a major error of judgement early in life. Rather like Tyrion, Littlefinger and maybe the mistake that Varys made that got him cut...

*2) It makes every other Frey born other than the unknowing ones descended though Old Nan bastards! Which really opens up the fight for the Twins when the late Lord finally cops it.

[the smiling weirwood]

Okay, Varys did not make a mistake to land him where he is. He was sold into slavery to some sicko magician guy and then tossed out into the streets. That says inescapable circumstances to me as opposed to bad life-choices.

[Boaz]

Tom, I like it. You've almost completely sold me, mostly because I wish it to be true. So you think on his deathbed, a senile Lord Frey will be mumbling "Nan, I should never have sent you away"? Perhaps his sexual appetites now are a cover for a soft heart that was betrayed or forced to give up it's dreams... just like Tyrion. Hmmmm.

tsw, if what Varys says is true, then I agree with you whole heartedly. The trouble is that I am not sure that Varys "broke down and confessed his miserable circumstances" to Tyrion. I think Varys told Tyrion that story to get sympathy and trust from Tyrion (the story may or may not be true).

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Tom, I like it. You've almost completely sold me, mostly because I wish it to be true. So you think on his deathbed, a senile Lord Frey will be mumbling "Nan, I should never have sent you away"? Perhaps his sexual appetites now are a cover for a soft heart that was betrayed or forced to give up it's dreams... just like Tyrion. Hmmmm.

I'm sorry, but I will never be able to see or dream up any heh, heh... redeeming qualities in the Late Lord Frey.

[the smiling weirwood]

Yes, I suppose so. I think I would just like to believe that Varys isn't just a heartless spider with no soul to speak of.

[Kendack]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

I'm sorry, but I will never be able to see or dream up any heh, heh... redeeming qualities in the Late Lord Frey.

Oooo, someone obviously hates Lord Frey, heh. Personally I think he's a pimp!!!


I really should stop reading all these conspiracy theories. Being such a gullible person I take everything to heart!

[Boaz]

Here's another couple completely absurd theories.

Theory: Margaery is actually a faceless man, uh, woman.

It explains the... hmmm, how shall I put this... her broken maidenhead. It could explain the need for the moontea. It explains her willingness to take on Joffrey. It explains why Mace, Garlan, and Loras all left her alone in King's Landing, ie. in the Lion's Den. It explains her lack of fear for herself in the clutches of the Sparrows. It gives a different explanation for Joff's death... c'mon, do you really believe anything Littlefinger says?

Theory: Asha will ally with Stannis.

A few of the Kraken who want lands of their own (or who will refuse to follow Euron) will want to settle on the territory that they've conquered in the North. Stannis, needing allies, will acknowledge Asha as Lady of the Ironmen. He may even let her take the title of Queen (sort of like how Doran is called Prince). Asha brings a small fleet in the western seas to Stannis and he gives her a secure base from which to raid Euron, Stark loyalists, or even Lannisters. From reading http://www.chronicles-network.com/fo...i-summary.html I'd say that Stannis is willing to cut a few corners and start making deals to try and win the Iron Throne.