Everyone needs a conspiracy theory....

[viZion]

Oh, sorry. I thought we were all just listing the things we like to beat our dead horses to.

[vervain_ashe]

Originally Posted by viZion

Oh, sorry. I thought we were all just listing the things we like to beat our dead horses to.

Snarf. Poor sport?!

[viZion]

Originally Posted by vervain_ashe

Snarf. Poor sport?!

Not me. I'm just having fun . TK-421 didn't seem to appreciate it though .

[vervain_ashe]

Originally Posted by viZion

Not me. I'm just having fun . TK-421 didn't seem to appreciate it though .

Bwaa Haa haa! D'oh.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by viZion

TK-421 didn't seem to appreciate it though .

Sorry, we have a bad communicator. Watch out for the Wookie behind the door.

[Boaz]

My apologies to George Lucas...

viZion: [trying to sound official] Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.

I, Brian: What happened?

viZion: [getting nervous] Uh, we had a slight posting malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

I, Brian: We're sending a mod up.

viZion: Uh, uh... negative, negative. We have a thread leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.

I, Brian: Who is this? What's your operating number?

viZion: Uh... [viZ shoots his keyboard]

viZion: [muttering] Boring conversation, anyway.... verv! We've got company!

[Animusman]

Originally Posted by viZion

I can't tell if you're being serious, Boaz, but I'll just act like you are . Mormont wasn't giving the blade to a turncloack bastard. He was giving it to the next Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Maybe John will then give that blade to his successor.

Hm, I really only skimmed over the recent discussion about ravens and crows. Did anyone happen to mention that maybe Mormont had warging abilities and went into his raven right before he was killed?

You have merit here because Mormont cannot pass the sword on to his own son because he is forbidden to have any, but he can pass the sword on to a "brother". 'Honor the steel with deeds not words..' Valyrian steel is priceless and no one would bury a relative with one. What else is Mormont suppose to do with it? It was given to Mormont because he was probably the last one of his family with a shred of honor since Jorah shamed the mormont house by selling the poachers instead of giving them to the Night's Watch. Valyrian steel in ASOIAF are not just fancy swords with an eternal edge but something more. Mormont was grooming Jon for command of the Night's Watch and he felt the sword should remain with someone honorable and worthy of it. Jon proved his worthiness by quick thinking in destroying the wight in AGOT, bravery in the face of an enemy the seems to be unkillable, etc.

[mercymydarling]

I'm kind of baffled at the Coldhands debate... but again, because my brain is unoriginal: I read it and thought, "Oh, Coldhands is totes Benjen" and didn't think anything about it.

[TK-421]

Well, unoriginal brain or not, I think the single biggest clue that Coldhands is NOT Benjen is the fact that Bran would of recognized his uncle, no.

[Boaz]

Anyway, I had some thoughts regarding Shae... purely platonic and innocent... and since I did not find a "Shae" thread, I thought this would be the place to discuss our favorite whore.

Crazy Idea #1: Shae is Robert's bastard.

Shae is the same age as Mya Stone, Robert's first bastard.

Mya, Bella (allegedly), Gendry, Edric, Barra, and the child gotten on a Lannisport servant are the bastards listed so far. Varys told Tyrion that Robert had eight bastards (that he knew). That leaves two that Varys knows and we don't.

Why was Shae so eager to try and enter courtly life? Did she feel denied her right to be a princess?

Why did Tywin take her to bed? He despised whores and ignoble blood. Running the realm while schtuping Robert's daughter probably appealed to his lust for power and his sense of destiny.

Crazy Idea #2: Shae was working for Littlefinger.

You've seen my postulations that Shae and Bronn were both planted by Tywin (or mayhaps Varys) to spy on Tyrion. But what if she was working for Baelish?

Varys seems to use "little birds." Tyrion discovered that some of the secret passageways of the Red Keep are so small that adults cannot use them. (On a side note, this may have been how Aegon was smuggled out.)

We know that Baelish regularly employed paid adult spies and assassins. Hugh of the Vale. Oswell Kettleblack. Osmund Kettleblack. Osney Kettleblack. Osfryd Kettleblack. Lyn Corbray. Olenna Tyrell. Dontos Hollard. He had all of these people in place long before he needed them or had them "do" something for him.

Baelish implicated Tyrion in the attempt upon Bran's life. When Catelyn abducted Tyrion, Baelish knew Catelyn would tell his tale to Tyrion. After Tyrion was released, Baelish knew Tyrion would be his mortal enemy. Littlefinger could have sent Shae to Tyrion... or he simply could have purchased her loyalty (and mayhaps Bronn's as well) to spy on Tyrion.

[IlliferThePenniless]

Crazy Idea #1
We can assume that Robert had 16 bastards right? Because of the Maggie's the Frog's prophecy... I only count 7 that we know about, but the common thread with them is that they're all obviously Robert's children, black hair, his eyes, the seed is strong, etc etc. We don't have any of that with Shea do we?

Crazy Idea #2
All things are possible I suppose, but there's not really much meat there... hard to see how one could argue one way or the other. Has Petyr shown knowledege of Tyrion that would imply he had a spy close to him? Shae wouldn't have really been that useful as spy would she? Tyrion kept her across town or working as a scullery maid... he certainly wasn't discussing his plans in front of her. Bronn would have been a much useful spy....

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by IlliferThePenniless

All things are possible I suppose, but there's not really much meat there...

Absolutely. When have I ever really had any meat on my ASOIAF speculations? I reserve the right to jump to quick conclusions and to be tenaciously irrational in clinging to those conclusions.

Now what was Maggy's prophecy again? She used numbers?

[IlliferThePenniless]

When will I wed the prince?" she asked.
"Never. You will wed the king."
... "I will be queen, though?" asked the younger her.
"Aye." Malice gleamed in Maggys yellow eyes. "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."
... "Will the king and I have children?" she asked.
"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."

I guess my main objection to Shae as spy for Littlefinger is why bother? She wasn't really in position to report much of what Tyrion was up to (she could be used as leverage against him, but she wouldn't have to be on the payroll for that), and she never seemed give Lord Baelish any useful information that he actually used to any effect.

Petyr clearly hoped (and succeeded) to get Tyrion framed for Joffery's murder, but he didn't need Shae to do that, he just played off the king's natural cruel streak and Cersei's paranoia. The rest took care of itself.

[Boaz]

I just want to know who Shae, Bronn, Jaqen, Quaithe, Auranne, Daario, and Varys are working for.

[IlliferThePenniless]

I think Shae and Bronn are more or less what they appear(ed) to be. It would have been very difficult (impossible) to anticipate the way Bronn became useful to Tyrion. And once the sell sword became useful, Tyrion was very clear that he would always be the highest bidder. When that was no longer the case, Bronn sold the dwarf out. He even felt kind of bad about it. It hasn't occurred to me that there's an great mystery to Bronn motivations. I've already expressed my skepticism of Shae as anything other then what she appeared to be.

There's some very suggestive stuff concerning Varys in the spoiler chapters floating around out there. He's obviously in league in Illyrio, but there seems to me a pretty good chance that they're the ones pulling strings, not working for anyone but themselves.

I wish we knew more about Quaithe, she intrigues me.