Genetic Discrimination

[Creator]

Whoa! AFter weeks of absence and this thread returns to life! Nice info guys.....!

But the question is that does this genetic discrimination problem stem from workplace discrimination in the first place or did it originate from something more.....?

I have an article in my local Singapore newspaper about pregnant women and age discrimination.... and it made it clear to me that this genetic discrimination may stem from such simple and small beginnings as well as setting the right settings for Alpha Omega

comments?

[jackokent]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

Then consider this: if a person had no will to live because the disorder is critical enough to make the said genuinely suicidal, it would be best to just cure the disorder: Leprosy, Huntington's, etc.

Not for mere changes like curing a cold, but actual ones that leave a person not only crippled physically, but emotionally too due to alienation and futility.

On an individual basis yes, of course anyone would be crazy not to seek a cure, but as for the long term benefits to society as a whole, whilst it seems obviously one sided, by destroying a gene are we potentially destroying a developement that will eventually do us good. I am not saying we are, I am say we don't know yet and that could be dangerous.

[Creator]

BUt I also wish to know...... how do the people discriminate others via genes? if it's qualifications, racial, sexual discrimination, obesity discrimination. Tt's very obvious right? But how do these people get discriminated via genes? They have genetic detectors or something?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Creator

[Do] they have genetic detectors or something?

You can have DNA tests done now. It costs as little as $250. All that is required for your scenario is to make them compulsory. They don't test every gene though, for that we'd need to map every gene and the cost would be prohibitive at the moment.

Don't you ever watch those TV shows shown at a certain time in the mornings when they give people free paternity tests because the mother has slept with so many men that her boyfriend doesn't know if the child is his or not?

Have you never watched a police or crime drama when they take DNA samples from hairs, blood and semen to match with the murderer?

I have actually just had my DNA tested for family history research purposes. 37 Y chromosome markers are tested (there is a more expensive 64 marker test too) and they can tell me from that which Haplogroup and Subclade I belong to (basically where my very ancient ancestors came from), and also how closely I match to others with the same surname. Because the Y chromosome is passed down from grandfather to father to son and surnames are also passed down from grandfather to father to son then people with the same surname share the same Y chromosome. There are subtle variations that occur due to mutation over time, and this is what the tests test. From the number of differences you can tell how many generations ago you shared the same ancestor.

This is leading to some extreme family history research. Where one used to be able to find your ancestors to about 1800, maybe if you are lucky with parish records back to 1600, now people are finding cousins with the same surname who are many centuries apart.

Daily Herald - Internet, DNA testing make modern genealogy an extreme pursuit

That article explains how all of British Royal family, 18 U.S. presidents, 14 first ladies, Walt Disney, Colin Powell and Brooke Shields are all descendents of Charlemagne.

What it doesn't say is that new research shows that most of Asia has been found to be the descendents of a single man. After some research they believe that man can only be Genghis Khan.

As you can see, genetic testing is a subject that interests me. I don't like the idea of genetic discrimination though.

Originally Posted by Creator

But I also wish to know...... how do the people discriminate others via genes? if it's qualifications, racial, sexual discrimination, obesity discrimination. Tt's very obvious right? But how do these people get discriminated via genes?

Have you never seen Gattaca a film from 1997 and out on DVD? The Valids and the Invalids.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Dave

That article explains how all of British Royal family, 18 U.S. presidents, 14 first ladies, Walt Disney, Colin Powell and Brooke Shields are all ancestors of Charlemagne.

Errr, Dave... don't you mean "descendants"? But you raise some good points here. And it really isn't difficult at all to have these tests run... though they're running into some interesting problems with the subject of the chimeras; we're going to have to refine this process considerably yet. But it's enough as it stands to begin genetic discrimination. In fact, that's going on now, to some degree, with preferences being named for physical characteristics when people are looking to adopt children, or even with some attempting to find ways to get genetic manipulation going...

[Dave]

Thanks for pointing that out, it didn't make much sense so I edited it.

I was just thinking about Creators last question more:

Originally Posted by Creator

how do the people discriminate others via genes? if it's qualifications, racial, sexual discrimination, obesity discrimination. Tt's very obvious right?

Those things can all be genetic - sex is obviously, skin colouring, intelligence and certain skills, even obesity!

So, in that respect we already do have genetic discrimination and always have done.

[Creator]

ok since it ain't compulsory...... but if it's complusory. Gattaca might become reality. I am now looking for the movie but it's not available in Singapore.... I will find a way to obtain it.

But how would job employers or insurance agents, etc get access to this information in the first place?? If it's the police, it's the forensics but job employers and insurance agents?

[j. d. worthington]

You'd be surprised how much of that information is accessible to them already. And, frankly, it wouldn't take much to get that sort of thing rolling so that any genetic material gathered with a simple physical examination would be accessible to them, under any number of rubrics, from "national security" to "protecting the economy" to "preventing a disruptive influence". It all depends on how invasive and totalitarian any government is willing to be... and on that one, I don't trust any of them any further than I can throw this whole ball of mud with a broken pinkie....

[Creator]

I am still in the blur...... but by right this info is classified, r you saying that they hired hackers?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Creator

I am still in the blur...... but by right this info is classified, r you saying that they hired hackers?

It isn't necessarily classified. Depends on what the paperwork you fill out says. And, of course, under some of the new laws (anti-terrorism, as well as some of the other things that are surfacing) it's easy for things to be in a "gray area", and therefore not necessarily illegal to collect the information.

We've recently had cases of police getting glasses and silverware from restaurants to get that kind of information on suspects, after all. And hacking for such things isn't unheard of... just darned difficult to prove.

Another interesting aspect of this is that there are now cases in the courts to decide whether or not you actually own your own DNA information, from what I understand. If I remember correctly, these involve such things as firms that have collected things for aiding in reproductive purposes, but also from various other medical tests people have signed up for, etc. In other words... right now it's being decided whether you have the right to restrict the selling of your genetic information by a third party, once you give that party permission to gather such. I've a feeling that one is going to be a very prolonged and heated battle, with major sociological repercussions....

[Creator]

OH.... I see no wonder I am so blur about this subject. So much repercussions and complications. but still I am puzzled as how the employers get the information in first place. A DNA database or IC with genetic info encrypted into them?

[j. d. worthington]

So far as I know, employers aren't yet doing that sort of thing ... though there's talk about going that way (to save on insurance: discrimination against people whose family has a history of high risk for cancer, heart disease, etc.); but I wouldn't be that surprised if some of this information were to be exchanging hands; though the logistics of it would seem pretty insuperable at this point. Insurance companies, on the other hand, are another matter; they have access to an awful lot of information about a person health-wise, and any healthcare where they are contacted, they may have access to more information than you realize. At this point, again, it's unlikely that the money's being spent to get that kind of information yet... but it may be just a matter of them figuring out a way to make it cost effective (quite possible, by looking at how much they'd save in payments to those who are genetically predisposed to high risk conditions, for instance)....

[Creator]

I oh so insurance agents have access to this infomation...... so the employer can just check or something like that.

So for a GATTACA or Alpha Omega scenerio, genetic privacy is completely invaded such that we have insurance agents, employers and the like having easy access to a person's records.

Right?

[Creator]

So what do we need or should I say what factor are needed for something like GATTACA to become a reality and what is needed to prevent this disaster.....

but I think if a government decides to collect everyone's genetic info and makes this a compulsory law.... this is one of the things that could lead to GATTACA.... but what else?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Creator

So what do we need or should I say what factor are needed for something like GATTACA to become a reality and what is needed to prevent this disaster.....

but I think if a government decides to collect everyone's genetic info and makes this a compulsory law.... this is one of the things that could lead to GATTACA.... but what else?

I'm not quite sure I follow you there... Are you asking what other sorts of scenarios can develop? It may sound extreme, but it is quite possible: criminalization of someone who doesn't match up with approved genetic standards. That's likely to be a very long time coming, as it will mean establishing an "approved" genetic model and making a fair chunk of the populace fit that mold, but it is a possibility. Anyone who thinks it isn't, look at the human race's penchant for genocide on the slenderest of excuses. Ethnic cleansing, anyone? And the U.S. is no less prone to this sort of thing than any other country... it just takes a bit more finagling to get it in place. Joe McCarthy and the Red Scare ring a bell?

As for what it takes to prevent such... well, it's been summed up long ago: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." (Actually, I think Len Deighton's Bernard Samson put it best: "The price of freedom ... is eternal paranoia. Vigilance is not enough.") That means watching those in power as if you were a hungry hawk intent on dinner. Questioning authority. Accept nothing on anyone's say-so; look up the facts for yourself. Fight tooth and nail to hold onto what liberties you have. And make yourself a hairy nuisance when they start treading over the line, and in as many ways as possible. In other words, do all you can to keep them honest. It's no guarantee... but trusting any government is never a good idea. Government is, at best, a necessary evil... it is never a good thing; simply better than the alternative.

Frankly, considering so many people are using up all their energy simply to stay afloat... I'm none too sanguine on the outcome....