Character views and opinions - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

I, Brian · 2nd November 2003, 12:42 PM

I read on another site someone getting all steamed up, because in the film "Interview with the Vampire", the character "Louis" makes a disparaging remark about Dracula by Bram Stoker - the "vulgar fictions of a demented Irishman".

This person found it disrespectful to Bram Stoker, and thought anne Rice was being snide.

However, ultimately this is a character view being made and my own position would be that character voices should *never* be taken as author voices.

Yet is this a weak and limited argument? Was Anne Rice - who was apparently credited with the screenplay writing - actually being snide as an author, or simply and harmlessly using character voice?

littlemissattitude · 2nd November 2003, 06:35 PM

Um...I'm not really sure why it would have been so wrong if Anne Rice had been making a disparaging remark about Stoker's "Dracula". I mean, if that was her opinion, she shouldn't be shy in expressing it, personally or through a character - as long as that opinion is how she really feels or is true to the character expressing it.

Now, having said that, I'll answer the question by saying that I certainly don't think that authors should be held responsible for their characters' opinions. I mean, how could any writer produce a credible piece of fiction if every one of their characters held the opinions of the writer? That would make every character the same, not exactly the formula for good characterization.

Actually, I think the situation you refer to - the person who got upset because he/she thought that someone had insulted an author that they presumably enjoy - goes back to a cultural problem that I have been noticing for a few years now. At least here in the States, there is an increasingly large portion of the population who seem to think that they have an inalienable right to never be offended; that anyone who does or says anything that they find offensive in any way should be censored or punished. In other words, they expect everyone to have the same tastes and opinons as they do, and if the other person doesn't agree they should just stay quiet. Sometimes this attitude is known as Political Correctness.

Now, I don't think it is a good idea to go around trying to offend people as a matter of regular practice. That is rude and a sign of bad breeding, I think. But I think it is also true that one should not be afraid of voicing sincere opinions just because those opinions might offend someone else.

End of rant.

Edited for clarity in the third paragraph.

X Q mano · 3rd November 2003, 12:39 PM

I don't think authors should be held singularily responsible for what their characters do or say, but I also think that authors shouldn't be afraid to claim responsibility if they are actually voicing their own opinions through their characters. But that responsibility should be claimed by the authors and not by the readers.

I liked what you said littlemissattitude...

dwndrgn · 3rd November 2003, 02:25 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with LittleMissAttitude - not only is it the author's right to express an opinion, it is the author's right to have a character express an opinion of their own.

I also think that people are so (for lack of a better word) uptight that they have to be offended by every little thing that just happens to be in disagreement with their own opinions. Not only are they offended by it but, as LittleMiss said, they want reparation or punishment from/for the supposed offender.

People amaze me. They really do. Sometimes I want to tell these people that if they paid more attention to what they did or said instead of what other people are doing and saying, they might actually lead a productive life. Sheesh. Now I'm ready to rant! I've had a bad morning so far and this didn't help my 'sunny' disposition at all.

littlemissattitude · 3rd November 2003, 05:19 PM

Poor dwndrgn...hope your day gets better.

Maybe if you go ahead and rant here, it'll make you feel better. I know it does me, sometimes.

dwndrgn · 3rd November 2003, 05:54 PM

I do feel better already! Thanks! I'm never too far from cranky on normal days

but when you combine a Monday with a bunch of mishaps and annoying circumstances, I'm there in a heartbeat. However, I don't usually reside there too long unless annoying things continue to pile up. Today, as soon as I got to work I only had one more bad thing happen and since then it's been smooth sailin'. Ranting always helps, as well as the good wishes of others

.

I hope your day is going very well for you.

Neal Asher · 25th November 2003, 05:01 PM

In the bland boring pc-controlled world we'll all write books in which nothing upsetting or too exciting happens to an even racial mix of non-smoking, non-drinking characters who on the whole support gay whales against racism.
It makes me want to puke.

Neal Asher · 25th November 2003, 05:04 PM

And the terrible thing is that I feel the urge to moderate what I've just written, knowing the pc Gestapo are lurking everywhere.
http://freespace.virgin.net/n.asher

Neal Asher · 25th November 2003, 05:09 PM

Bugger, the above was supposed to go on the end of the thread about author responsibility. Damned if I know how I ended up starting another thread.

dwndrgn · 25th November 2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Asher

In the bland boring pc-controlled world we'll all write books in which nothing upsetting or too exciting happens to an even racial mix of non-smoking, non-drinking characters who on the whole support gay whales against racism.
It makes me want to puke.

Well said (and funny too

). Let's hope we never attain this 'utopia' you've sarcastically created.

dwndrgn · 25th November 2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Asher

Bugger, the above was supposed to go on the end of the thread about author responsibility. Damned if I know how I ended up starting another thread.

I've fixed it for you - dwndrgn

dwndrgn · 25th November 2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Asher

And the terrible thing is that I feel the urge to moderate what I've just written, knowing the pc Gestapo are lurking everywhere.
http://freespace.virgin.net/n.asher

I don't believe we've got any pc Gestapo hanging about...if so they seem to be awfully quiet for their type

. If they do show up we may have to show them the way to the door...

I, Brian · 25th November 2003, 10:31 PM

Well, there's a big difference between being PC and being blatantly offensive.

As for starting a new thread by accident - don't worry about it, sometimes these types of forum have a little learning curve. I suspect you saw "new thread" and "post reply" together and simply clicked on the wrong one. Which is precisely what I did the very first time I used a vBulletin.

Btw - the gay whales book - sounds like an interesting story.

littlemissattitude · 26th November 2003, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Well, there's a big difference between being PC and being blatantly offensive.

Agreed. I fear that bland world more than just about anything. I mean, I try my best to avoid offending people, even when I'm pretty upset with them. But I've been in too many situations (work and school, mostly) where I've had to watch every word coming out of my mouth for fear that someone might be offended. And there are so many people out there today who spend all their time trying to find something offensive in everything they see, hear, and read.

Take the movies. It seems like these days, every time a movie comes out that has a villian in it, the group the villian belongs to gets all up in arms, convinced that the purpose of the film is to smear every member of that group. Show someone from the Arabic world as a villian? Not allowed. Show a woman as a villian? All the women's groups get all bent out of shape about it. Show an Italian as a villian? That's an unacceptable stereotype. The list could go on and on.

Well, sheesh, it's kind of hard to write a book with any kind of conflict in it without somebody being the bad guy. But hey, maybe everyone will have to start writing science fiction and fantasy, so that the villians can be from no group on earth and in the mundane world we know.

That was a rant, wasn't it? Sorry. Didn't mean it to be. But, darn it, it takes all the fun out of writing if the only thing permissible to write about are Sunday school picnics.

Neal Asher · 26th November 2003, 10:08 AM

I think I started to lose grip when I heard about the British police being told they can no longer use the description 'accident black-spot' to describe a dangerous corner or whatever. When crap like that starts appearing, you know the inmates are running the asylum.

Villains: if your baddies are white, male, heterosexuals that's fine - there aren't any pressure groups for that variety of human being...

2nd November 2003, 12:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
I, Brian Brian G. Turner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 9,265 Blog Entries: 12	Are authors responsible for character views? I read on another site someone getting all steamed up, because in the film "Interview with the Vampire", the character "Louis" makes a disparaging remark about Dracula by Bram Stoker - the "vulgar fictions of a demented Irishman". This person found it disrespectful to Bram Stoker, and thought anne Rice was being snide. However, ultimately this is a character view being made and my own position would be that character voices should never be taken as author voices. Yet is this a weak and limited argument? Was Anne Rice - who was apparently credited with the screenplay writing - actually being snide as an author, or simply and harmlessly using character voice?

25th November 2003, 05:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
Neal Asher Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 267	author responsibility In the bland boring pc-controlled world we'll all write books in which nothing upsetting or too exciting happens to an even racial mix of non-smoking, non-drinking characters who on the whole support gay whales against racism. It makes me want to puke.

25th November 2003, 05:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Neal Asher Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 267	respon... And the terrible thing is that I feel the urge to moderate what I've just written, knowing the pc Gestapo are lurking everywhere. http://freespace.virgin.net/n.asher

26th November 2003, 10:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
Neal Asher Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 267	re I think I started to lose grip when I heard about the British police being told they can no longer use the description 'accident black-spot' to describe a dangerous corner or whatever. When crap like that starts appearing, you know the inmates are running the asylum. Villains: if your baddies are white, male, heterosexuals that's fine - there aren't any pressure groups for that variety of human being...

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2nd November 2003, 06:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
littlemissattitude Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,576 Blog Entries: 9	Um...I'm not really sure why it would have been so wrong if Anne Rice had been making a disparaging remark about Stoker's "Dracula". I mean, if that was her opinion, she shouldn't be shy in expressing it, personally or through a character - as long as that opinion is how she really feels or is true to the character expressing it. Now, having said that, I'll answer the question by saying that I certainly don't think that authors should be held responsible for their characters' opinions. I mean, how could any writer produce a credible piece of fiction if every one of their characters held the opinions of the writer? That would make every character the same, not exactly the formula for good characterization. Actually, I think the situation you refer to - the person who got upset because he/she thought that someone had insulted an author that they presumably enjoy - goes back to a cultural problem that I have been noticing for a few years now. At least here in the States, there is an increasingly large portion of the population who seem to think that they have an inalienable right to never be offended; that anyone who does or says anything that they find offensive in any way should be censored or punished. In other words, they expect everyone to have the same tastes and opinons as they do, and if the other person doesn't agree they should just stay quiet. Sometimes this attitude is known as Political Correctness. Now, I don't think it is a good idea to go around trying to offend people as a matter of regular practice. That is rude and a sign of bad breeding, I think. But I think it is also true that one should not be afraid of voicing sincere opinions just because those opinions might offend someone else. End of rant. Edited for clarity in the third paragraph.

3rd November 2003, 12:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
X Q mano Poet Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 89	I don't think authors should be held singularily responsible for what their characters do or say, but I also think that authors shouldn't be afraid to claim responsibility if they are actually voicing their own opinions through their characters. But that responsibility should be claimed by the authors and not by the readers. I liked what you said littlemissattitude...

3rd November 2003, 02:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
dwndrgn Fierce Vowelless One Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 3,823	I agree wholeheartedly with LittleMissAttitude - not only is it the author's right to express an opinion, it is the author's right to have a character express an opinion of their own. I also think that people are so (for lack of a better word) uptight that they have to be offended by every little thing that just happens to be in disagreement with their own opinions. Not only are they offended by it but, as LittleMiss said, they want reparation or punishment from/for the supposed offender. People amaze me. They really do. Sometimes I want to tell these people that if they paid more attention to what they did or said instead of what other people are doing and saying, they might actually lead a productive life. Sheesh. Now I'm ready to rant! I've had a bad morning so far and this didn't help my 'sunny' disposition at all.

3rd November 2003, 05:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
littlemissattitude Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,576 Blog Entries: 9	Poor dwndrgn...hope your day gets better. Maybe if you go ahead and rant here, it'll make you feel better. I know it does me, sometimes.

3rd November 2003, 05:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
dwndrgn Fierce Vowelless One Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 3,823	I do feel better already! Thanks! I'm never too far from cranky on normal days but when you combine a Monday with a bunch of mishaps and annoying circumstances, I'm there in a heartbeat. However, I don't usually reside there too long unless annoying things continue to pile up. Today, as soon as I got to work I only had one more bad thing happen and since then it's been smooth sailin'. Ranting always helps, as well as the good wishes of others . I hope your day is going very well for you.

25th November 2003, 05:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Neal Asher Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 267	Bugger, the above was supposed to go on the end of the thread about author responsibility. Damned if I know how I ended up starting another thread.

25th November 2003, 10:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
I, Brian Brian G. Turner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 9,265 Blog Entries: 12	Well, there's a big difference between being PC and being blatantly offensive. As for starting a new thread by accident - don't worry about it, sometimes these types of forum have a little learning curve. I suspect you saw "new thread" and "post reply" together and simply clicked on the wrong one. Which is precisely what I did the very first time I used a vBulletin. Btw - the gay whales book - sounds like an interesting story.