first book

[Valko]

Originally Posted by Werthead

I find Martin and Erikson complement each other very well. Erikson has tremendous breadth in the sheer number of factions, gods, nations, continents and characters he creates but Martin has far deeper characters, history and worldbuilding. Erikson is very high-magic, lots of explosions and w00t! moments, whilst Martin is low-magic, much more intense and character-based. If they ever got together to do a project (highly unlikely) it would be pretty special.

I thought the same, however, ICE had a go at Martin's at ASOIAF in a recent interview. Which I thought was a bit rich coming from an author who has only had one book published.

[Rane Longfox]

Woah there cowboy, let's take a look at that, shall we?
The only time Martin is mentioned in the interview in question is here:

Who are your favourite authors within the fantasy genre?

For fantasy and related work I’d currently add Iain M. Banks (love his stuff), Philip K. Dick, Neal Stephenson, old Gene Wolfe (the Urth series), China Miéville, and William Gibson. I would add here that I am familiar with G. R. R. Martin’s Swords series, but I do not count it anywhere near a favourite as I find his clinging to the clichés of medieval chivalry tiresome.

Now, this is not "having a go", this is stating his opinion, and considering Martin and Erikson are considered the two best in modern fantasy at the moment, it's fair to comment on it.
Besides, it's a fair comment. I can't stand medieval fantasy, personally, it's far too generic. I only enjoy Martin because he mixes it up with more far-eastern stuff (Dany's storyline).

And does the fact he's only had one book published mean he isn't allowed an opinion? We may as well all quit talking about books then, because the vast majority of us aren't ever going to get anything published. Let's leave all opinion-stating to Mercedes Lackey, shall we?

Despite this, it made him the villain of choice on the Westeros board for several months - most of the members there can't stand any suggestion that Martin might not be anything but absolutely awesome (Not all of the members though, I hasten to add)

[Valko]

'I find his clinging to the clichés of medieval chivalry tiresome'
Maybe it's his opinion but he's still having a go at Martin.
If I had read the interview before I had requested NOK for christmas, I wouldn't have bothered with him.
£17 for a paperback from an author I don't share the same opinion with is a waste.

[Green]

I do agree that the comment comes over to me as having a go. Having said that, the guy is entitled to his opinion. So you're both right

ICE shows promise as a Malazan author, I think, but he is far from the levels of Erikson. Understandable, but nevertheless. I found NoK to be worth the money I paid (can't remember what it was, but something like £35 signed hb), but it wasn't a fantastic book. Perhaps more for the Malazan-obsessed than the casual reader.

As to the comment and whether I'd have bought the book after reading the comment - hell yeah I love it when authors and the like are prepared to say what they actually think, instead of tip-toeing around each other. I've never read aSoIaF, so I don't even know if the comment was justified or not... I just like that he's willing to say it.

@Valko - there are surely many opinions of your favourite authors' that you don't agree with. Is that really the be all, end all? If one of them had a pop at Martin, would you avoid their overpriced niche market output (and NoK definitely falls into the niche market category imo)? I'm not trying to flame here, just asking.

PS - I am coming round to the idea that Bakker excels Erikson, but I'm going to do a re-read of PoN in a couple of weeks, so I'll leave my final judgement til then

[Valko]

ICE doesn't actually say if he's read Martin's books, just that he's familiar with his 'swords series'. Has Martin written another medieval series that I'm unaware of? Or does ICE mean aSoFaI?

@Green - Bakker is the next author on my list, after I get through the rest of the Erikson books

[Green]

Fair enough, if the guy hasn't even read the books, he has no right to comment on them. He can comment on the whole atmosphere surrounding the books, but his views on the books/writing would hold no weight with me.

Valko, I hope you enjoy the PoN - I think it's great. If at all possible, try and get the original hardback versions of the books (you can possibly still get these through Amazon USA and Canada, if you can be arsed). The hardbacks are beautiful.

[Karsa Orlong]

Originally Posted by Valko

'I find his clinging to the clichés of medieval chivalry tiresome'
Maybe it's his opinion but he's still having a go at Martin.
If I had read the interview before I had requested NOK for christmas, I wouldn't have bothered with him.
£17 for a paperback from an author I don't share the same opinion with is a waste.

I had the completely opposite reaction, as Martin for the most part (thusfar) doesn't do too much for me and the clichés, both medieval and otherwise, are a large part of why. I don't agree with "Martin has far deeper characters, history and worldbuilding" either, except in a very superficial sense. I don't have the time to elaborate now, but will do so if asked to at a later time.

[Valko]

Originally Posted by Karsa Orlong

I had the completely opposite reaction, as Martin for the most part (thusfar) doesn't do too much for me and the clichés, both medieval and otherwise, are a large part of why. I don't agree with "Martin has far deeper characters, history and worldbuilding" either, except in a very superficial sense. I don't have the time to elaborate now, but will do so if asked to at a later time.

No offence Karsa but I'm not about to read one of your books. The fact that you don't like Martin's work just means that we have a difference of opinion. I am however, about to read NoK and that ICE has made these comments, leads me to believe I wont like his work, because I've done exactly what he did to Martin, Pre-judged him. Thus wasting someone's money.

[Rane Longfox]

Firstly, let's clear this up - ICE has read aSoIaF.
So Valko, if you disagree with an author on something, you're not going to read their books? That must narrow the field somewhat... it's a damn waste, if thats the case, because there are a huge number of excellent authors out there who are complete nutcases, and hold views most people couldn't credit, but it doesn't mean their books aren't just as enjoyable.

Then again, if you judge authors on what they say, not what they write, maybe the content is unimportant. Personally, I judge authors on the books they write, not the interviews they do.

[Valko]

OK, if he's read it, why did he not call the series by it's proper name? That's like Martin calling Erikson's books, The Warren series. Downright rude.

So you're saying I like Martin because the content of his books is unimportant? Same goes for Erikson or Tolkien?

I haven't seen Erikson use the same language about Martin's books. When ICE has written a few more books, then perhaps he can pass judgement on other authors writing styles.

[Karsa Orlong]

Stephen Donaldson doesn't like H.P.Lovecraft; they're two of my all-time favourite authors. However, I can see things from your perspective as well - I think I'd be discouraged from checking out an author if he voiced negative opinions about my favourite authors. Still, let's not get too defensive about it, the man doesn't need to have written lots of books before holding an opinion about other people's work.

[Rane Longfox]

Originally Posted by Valko

When ICE has written a few more books, then perhaps he can pass judgement on other authors writing styles.

I understand your viewpoint, but simply re-iterate my earlier point - if people have to have published many books to have a valid opinion on an author, what the hell are we doing discussing authors here - surely we don't have valid opinions either?

[Valko]

The difference is, I'm not an author. I don't begrudge ICE his comments but he's put my back up, and by what you posted earlier, he also upset other Martin fans.
ICE is in the business of writing and trying to sell books, saying something like that may alienate potential readers.

[Karsa Orlong]

I get the impression that he doesn't expect his work to appeal to the sort of readers who like Martin, anyway. Honestly, with the ridiculous amount of fanboyism George R. Martin receives in pretty much every fantasy community across the globe, it's refreshing to see somebody voice a different opinion - how on earth it can be deemed offensive I'm really not sure. It's one thing to say "hm, ok, he doesn't like Martin's work therefore there's a good chance I won't like his", and quite another thing to condemn him for his opinion (although, I agree, he probably should've got the name of the series right if he wanted to get taken seriously - I'm sure he just got mixed up with A Storm of Swords however). This comment isn't aimed at anyone in particular, btw.

[Rane Longfox]

To be honest, ICE's audience is pretty much guarenteed anyway - it's malazan backstory, so Erikson has already done the hard work for him