Fantasy Recommendations - for the unenlightened

[GOLLUM]

Thanks for the update Kelpie. I'll bet London to a brick, as I alluded to in my previuos post, that the Necromonicon book you were looking at was just another of many such Lovecraft take offs produced over the years.

As far as HPL and CAS goes, I assume Brys means that they swapped ideas and compared thier stories over the years in a fairly close collaboration as indeed they did with other contemporaries of that time like Robert E Howard. As far as an actual published collaborativre work written by the two is concerned I know of no such piece in existence. Below is an extract from something I read recently about CAS and HPL that hopefully addresses the question.

HPL was attracted to CAS's poetic style, transmundane focus, and sardonic wit. CAS liked HPL's sweeping vistas of time and space and his personal philosophy of what's been called "cosmic indifferentism": the belief that humanity is no more significant in the universe than a blade of grass. HPL encouraged CAS to try his hand at fiction, and the two were soon passing drafts of stories back and forth for comment.

HPL's borrowings were not a one-way street. He encouraged his friends to use what they wished of his own "modest efforts" in their stories. It was like a game, and his friends played, too

Since the game of the Cthulhu Mythos continued after Lovecraft's death, later authors have also made reference to Smith story-cycles in Mythos stories -- August Derleth brought in Zothique, Ramsey Campbell the Martian/Aihai stories, Lin Carter the Xiccarph and Hastane tales -- so that, today, all of Smith's cycles except the Volmer stories may be considered to be in the Mythos. (Lest readers feel this to be a violation of an author's wishes, they should realize there is a CAS text fragment, "The Infernal Star", that combines references to most of Smith's own cycles, so that the thought was not entirely alien to him.).

As far as the stories CAS himself wrote with elements of Lovecraft's fiction in mind there's actually quite a number in addition to what you mentioned and simply too numerous to mention here, so rest assured I shan't bore you with such details...

[Brys]

Originally Posted by Kelpie

I'm not aware of any actual collaborations between Smith and Lovecraft, if that's what Brys means by working together.

I don't think there were any direct collaborations, at least not in the sense of co-writing any books. But they shared the Cthulu universe and were in close contact together. As Gollum said, Robert Howard was another one involved.

Now I've just got to try and find some HP Lovecraft.

[GOLLUM]

Originally Posted by Brys

I don't think there were any direct collaborations, at least not in the sense of co-writing any books. But they shared the Cthulu universe and were in close contact together. As Gollum said, Robert Howard was another one involved. Now I've just got to try and find some HP Lovecraft.

Brys, the following provides a link to a number of horror writer's short stories including Lovecraft that has some of his earlier works "The Alchemist" and "The Beast In The Cave".

http://www.classichorrorstories.com/stories.html

My favorite Lovecraft works and probably some of his most famous include:

At The Mountains Of Madness
Shadows Over Innsmouth
Rats In The Walls
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward
The Color out of Space
The Call of Cthulhu
Dagon
The Whisperer in Darkness
The Shadow Out of Time
The Horror at Red Hook
The Nameless City
The Dunwich Horror

[Teresa Edgerton]

They also have Lovecraft stories (and much else besides) at Red Moon:

http://www.harvestfields.ca/horror/index.htm

Unfortunately, everything is alphabetized by story title, not by author. Still, they have a lot of good things.

[Brys]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I just saw this on amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...333778-0677542

It's the Necronomicon book, by Donald Tyson. Perhaps that's the one.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Yes, I had a look (at Amazon) at that one, and it does look like the same book -- although, to confuse the issue, there's another Necronomicon by someone named Simon.

The disquieting thing about the Tyson book is that it's published by Llewelyn, a fairly well-known publishing house that specializes in metaphysical/Wicca/New Age type books. In other words, it looks like someone is actually taking the book seriously.

It reminds me of that ghost story Arthur Machen wrote during World War I, about Saint George and the archers of Agincourt coming to the aid of British soldiers -- which, after it was published, brought forth any number of "eye-witnesses" who claimed the incident was real -- though Machen insisted until his dying day that he made the story up.

Returning to Lovecraft -- the genuine article -- there are also printable e-texts of some of his stories at blackmask. They don't appear to be there, but if you do a search they turn up.

[GOLLUM]

Originally Posted by Brys

Thanks for the recommendations.

I just saw this on amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...333778-0677542

It's the Necronomicon book, by Donald Tyson. Perhaps that's the one.

Brys, other than arguably his greatest work the novella Mountains Of Madness, The Nameless City and The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward (although the Silver Key is a good alternate example of his Dream Cylce stories) the following book from Amazon seems to have the majority of his better known works in case you're interested.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034...lance&n=283155

From a fan review listing the book contents:

Every story herein deserves it own review, frankly. "The Rats in the Walls," "The Dreams in the Witch-House," and "In the Vault" (one of my favorites) offer traditional horror tales full of Lovecraftian atmosphere. "The Outsider," perhaps the least satisfying read, is an allegorical tale reflecting an isolated individual's view of society and of himself. "The Silver Key" is a solid representative of the dream-myth stories of the author's earlier years and serves as an introduction to Lovecraft's heroic character Randolph Carter. "The Colour Out of Space" is a singular, science fiction/horror tale counted by Lovecraft himself as one of his favorites. "The Picture in the House" is perhaps Lovecraft's most efficiently horrifying story ever, "The Music of Erich Zann" is an unforgettable tale touching on the great secrets of the unknown, and "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" sensationally evokes the horror and depths of influence by unseen agents on this earth. These stories effectively set the stage for the Cthulhu Mythos tales, of which the remaining stories form an integral part. "The Call of Cthulhu" and "The Dunwich Horror" herald the full manifestation of Lovecraft's cosmic horror and describe the ambivalent agency of incomprehensible outside forces on mankind. "The Haunter of the Dark" and "The Thing on the Doorstep" highlight even more mysterious access points of the unknown into man's consciousness. I must give special attention to my two favorite Lovecraft tales: "The Whisperer in Darkness" and "The Shadow Out of Time."

[GOLLUM]

Originally Posted by Kelpie

Yes, I had a look (at Amazon) at that one, and it does look like the same book -- although, to confuse the issue, there's another Necronomicon by someone named Simon.

The disquieting thing about the Tyson book is that it's published by Llewelyn, a fairly well-known publishing house that specializes in metaphysical/Wicca/New Age type books. In other words, it looks like someone is actually taking the book seriously

The book by Simon you refer to is the most widely distributed of the Necronomicon take offs, reaching mass market publication. Unsupsrisingly Simon doesn't exist either just as the book itself takes advantage of eager fans who are perhaps ready to believe in the book's existence despite Lovecraft's insistence to the contrary.

I can only assume Llewelyn has done the same thing as a way to cash in on the general hype or am I being a little too cynical here?

[the_faery_queen]

i have to say, i do warn people against goodkind. but i feel very storngly about the way he treats women, more than anything else. for me most recomended are:
farseer triligoy by robin hobb, her stuff got worse after that, tho i hate admiting it. the fool being my all time favourite character
and a song of ice and fire series by george r martin. just amazing
i also like david gemmel's legend. everything else by him is good, but more of the same. but they're so short that it does't matter

[kyektulu]

Aurian, Harp Of Winds, Sword Of Flames and Dhiamara by Maggie Furey.

These books are brillient, fantasy in its purest, I really couldnt put them down.

[GOLLUM]

Originally Posted by kyektulu

Aurian, Harp Of Winds, Sword Of Flames and Dhiamara by Maggie Furey.

These books are brillient, fantasy in its purest, I really couldnt put them down.

Well I tend to agree with you, it's just a pity her more recent trilogy The Shadowleague displayed such a fall in standards IMO...

[hedgeknight]

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

i have to say, i do warn people against goodkind. but i feel very storngly about the way he treats women, more than anything else. for me most recomended are:
farseer triligoy by robin hobb, her stuff got worse after that, tho i hate admiting it. the fool being my all time favourite character
and a song of ice and fire series by george r martin. just amazing
i also like david gemmel's legend. everything else by him is good, but more of the same. but they're so short that it does't matter

I've warned people about Goodkind too because from the first book's cover you think, "Oh, this is gonna be another great fantasy story about a boy and his dragon." - Yeah, right! Now, I absolutely loved Wizard's First Rule as well as Stone of Tears, Temple of the Winds, and Blood of the Fold - but after that...well, his writing has become political and social and rambling; it's like Jordan - when will it ever end?
And I agree with you on Hobb's first trilogy - although, by the third book I just wanted it to end and have no desire to read further.
GRRM is a "god!"
Legend is my second favorite Gemmell story, with Jerusalem Man being first - can't remember all of the others much; like you said they are more of the same.
-g-

[the_faery_queen]

i read the first four goodkind books, i was bored most of the way through the first, but towards the end, it got interesting, i read on. brought book 2. same thing happened! bored until near the end. then it got good. i read 3 and 4, and then just gave up. teh abuse of women was the main point. i was SiCK of reading about some poor woman who existed just to be raped and abused. sick of reading about sex with monsters and other nasty things.

and i was totally sick of kahalan and richard WHINING for each other and how beautiful and special richard through she was. i never got any further so luckily avoided all the political ramblings. but the rape was MORE than enough to turn me off. i don't like rape in fantasy as it is, but if it adds something, develops something, i can live with it. goodkind just seemed to be indulging his own perverted nastiness with the different ways he abused women

yeah, gemmel is samey, but i like that. its like a comfy jumper, you know what will happen, you know how it will go, but its nice. its why i am not anti cliche. i think new stuff is great, new ideas, but there is always room for a well written cliche, simply because its comfy, and writing doesn't always have to be taxing. it is meant to be enjoyable too. so as long as gemmell writes well, i dont' mind that his plots seem to be, tortured man goes off, does stuff, becomes hero, meets some girl who is also tortured in someway and who likes wearing tight clothes and shooting a bow and arrow

i think hobbs series would have been far better ended with farseer. liveship bored me. i LOATHED her characters for the most part, esp the women. she's a female writer, yet she has fallen into the trap of thinking that a bossy woman is somehow strong, that a selfish woman going after what she wants is somehow a strong character. cos she isn't. i hated the heroine and didn't see her as a strong, independant character, but a spoilt whiny brat, and i can't imagfine hobb meant us to see her that way! and the tawny man was ok, i like the fool, so that was good, but the end ruined it. she had such a great ending to the farseer triliogy, it just ended. fitz lost stuff, he was alone, the end. brilliant. tawny man went ott with marriages and babies, and people dying to allow that, and even into mentioning liveship characters JUST to tell us that they got married or had babies!

[Rosemary]

I really enjoyed reading Goodkinds first few books and I certainly had no trouble with dealing with the way he treated the women...I see it as his style of writing.
Maggie Fuery's books were good, Kye. I'm glad you enjoyed them as well. I would certainly recommend those...
As far as Gemmel goes, I found them to be quite good particularly Legend, although at times it seemed as if they were all about fighting!
One author whom I would like to recommend is Sara Douglass - The Axis Trilogy and The Wayfarer Redemption. Both trilogies are well written, the characters and plots introduced in an easy manner.
I have also, on a couple of occasions been known to recommend Erikson!!!

[the_faery_queen]

see, i can't accept that it was his styule to abuse women as being an excuse. i guess i just take it really seriously, but like i read (on a feminist site elsewhere) its not a good place to be in when rape and abuse of women is used for entertainment, and i just think, personally, if the abuse of the woman adds nothing to the plot, or the character, then it is just shock value/entertainment, and that isn't ok. i personally think that there is too much rape in tv and books and that people should be more careful with how they use it because it is a very real problem in this world and i fear desenstising people with it if its used carlessly. but this is all my own private rantyness.

i diodn't much like maggie fury either. i did, at first, but then i felt her three books of the four (of the first series i can't remember the name) were rushed. i felt rushed through it. that and i never took to the heroine.

as i've said, im a fussy fussy reader!